Suffering And God's Will/god's Direct And Permissive Will

[BarbTherese]

I am sorry, but I have had to delete this post and will return and hope that I can post without problems. For some reason my Posts can come out quite distorted.

Edited December 27, 2011 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

Q. What aspects of my life or any life are not God's Will, either His Direct or Permissive Will?

A. Absolutely nothing

It is a question of my [u][b]response[/b][/u] to God's Will in my life, either my response to His Direct orto His Permissive Will. The whole of life is a question of my perspective and attitude, or how do I view life and its content and what is my response to that view of life and its content.

[url="http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2011/06/20/how-can-i-know-the-will-of-god-in-my-life-part-i-of-ii"]http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2011/06/20/how-can-i-know-the-will-of-god-in-my-life-part-i-of-ii[/url]
[list]
[*]God's Indicative Will (aka God's Direct Will) - (Revealed and clearly identified factors of God's Will in my life, or any life)
[*]God's Permissive Will - (What God PERMITS in life that involves difficulty, suffering and pain)
[/list]


[url="http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/topics/gods-will"]http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/topics/gods-will[/url]
[list]
[*]How Long is Too Long?
[*]Praying Freely
[*]Accepting God's Current Answer
[*]Learning to Living with Mystery
[*]Learning from St Paul and a Practical Tip
[/list]

[BarbTherese]

This book marked a milestone in my own journey at a time of absolute disorder, confusion and non understanding and remains probably my most loved spiritual classic. It spells out quite clearly and in an easy to grasp manner how God's Will can be identified, embraced and responded to lovingly in all and any circumstance of life and life's content.

[i]Abandonment to Divine Providence[/i] (Jean Pierre de Caussade)

Review by a sound Catholic site which highly recommends the work: [url="http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/tags/abandonment"]http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/tags/abandonment[/url]

[Sarah147]

Thank you and bless you for sharing the spiritual teachings you find. They are very enriching.

[AccountDeleted]

I second the recommendation, it is a lovely bok. One of the ones that I have read several times. There is a lot to be learned from reading it.

[Sarah147]

Abandonment; I've read it. Great book. I forget easily, so I need to read it again.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

all i understand is that suffering is a consequence of sin and not nescisarily christs will. My only ammo to this is the gospel verse when jesus said "my yoke is easy and my burden is light(illumination to the truth)." possibly light in it self reveals the horrors of sin,shines in the dark,shows our weakness without god to save us from sin etc etc. I think i read somewhere in the letters of paul also that the lord will is faith,hope,love,peace(not exactly i can't remember the verse by heart) and that anything else is from the devil. The devil bathes in sin like a pig in it's own POOP!!! so the light illuminating whom where swimming with i guess can cause us to suffer but is not the light directly but that which we can see illuminated by the light. And i think i alo read somewhere in the O.T. or one of the catholic letters that God only wills peace.

Ok God bless you, all thats just my opinion, i fear the way we speak about suffering can confuse people as to that it is gods will for us,and even than i assume i have not explained myself coherrently or something, it may be his will to expose the enemies of the kingdom of heaven for what they are but than leads me to think of the psalm "if i where to walk through the valley of death,please grant that i should fear no evil."

Onward christian souls.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

p.s. not that where swimming with the enemies of the kingdom of heaven all the time,well hopefully not. Which leads me to think of how we can stand in judgement/damning of other peoples behaviour (which is one of the final things to remember.) and how this possibly is a sin as well and keeps us in the trough with that pig satan. I may have the judgement thing wrong,but surely ultimately that is the LORDS position to rule upon the seat of judgement. Am not meaning we can't make certain right judgements with the directions of our own lives and any others whom would invite us in to make a judgement upon theres. Kinda like to offer up our own failings and the failings of others in the matters of sin to the law courts of heaven and possibly even with others to have a mediator to help bring a sollution to a particular quarp or to just let go and let god in prayer if one has a paticular beef with another and avoid where possible. I don't know if any of what i have stated is in anyway part of the truth which is love which is justice and mercy which bears fruits of faith and hope,HaHa now i'm rambling lol, IGHT BLESS

[BarbTherese]

　
If we or somewhere in our world is experiencing evil and/or suffering, hence God's Permissive Will, we can be assured in Faith that God will bring a greater good out of it than the evil and/or suffering itself. This is highlighted for us in the Catholic Catechism:

[quote][b]311[/b] Angels and men, as intelligent and free creatures, have to journey toward their ultimate destinies by their free choice and preferential love. They can therefore go astray. Indeed, they have sinned. Thus has [i]moral evil[/i], incommensurably more harmful than physical evil, entered the world. God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil.[sup][size="2"]176[/size][/sup] He permits it, however, because he respects the freedom of his creatures and, mysteriously, knows how to derive good from it: For almighty God. . ., because he is supremely good, would never allow any evil whatsoever to exist in his works if he were not so all-powerful and good as to cause good to emerge from evil itself.[sup][size="2"]177[/size][/sup]
[b]324[/b]The fact that God permits physical and even moral evil is a mystery that God illuminates by his Son Jesus Christ who died and rose to vanquish evil. Faith gives us the certainty that God would not permit an evil if he did not cause a good to come from that very evil, by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life.
[url="javascript:openWindow("][b][u]412[/u][/b][/url] But [i]why did God not prevent the first man from sinning?[/i] St. Leo the Great responds, "Christ's inexpressible grace gave us blessings better than those the demon's envy had taken away."[sup][size="2"]307[/size][/sup] And St. Thomas Aquinas wrote, "There is nothing to prevent human nature's being raised up to something greater, even after sin; God permits evil in order to draw forth some greater good. Thus St. Paul says, 'Where sin increased, grace abounded all the more'; and the Exsultet sings, 'O happy fault,. . . which gained for us so great a Redeemer!'" [/quote]
[sup]　[/sup]
Hence, if I am - or someone in our world is - experiencing an evil and/or suffering and hence it comes about through God’s Permissive Will, this does not mean that one sits back and passively accepts it. This would be to passively accept evil and suffering - and suffering is an evil that entered our world through original sin. Rather we struggle against both evil and suffering by whatever means we have at our disposal. This means that we are investing in hope in the good that God intends to bring about by permitting evil and/or suffering in the first place.
However, as the Catholic Catechism explains for us the good God is bringing out of evil and/or sufferings may be by “ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life”.
At times what our Faith tells us is going to perhaps make us appear ‘a little crazy’ in the eyes of the world and wordly reasoning and logic. In other words, The Gospel might bring us into conflict with the world and in fact often can do so “they have persecuted me and they will persecute you”.
Also, we need to learn to live in Peace and Joy with Mystery. God Ultimately is Mystery and there are many mysteries especially with our Faith that human reasoning and logic just cannot explain.

[BarbTherese]

In my own failures and sinfulness, I can be assured that the good God is calling out of my failures and sins is repentance and renwal. To repent and begin again. But what if I absoltuely refuse to repent and begin again? Even then we have the assurance of our Faith that God intends to bring good out of a situation of complete failure and refusal of His Grace. This might be, to draw on the Catholic Catechism again, "by ways that we shall fully know only in eternal life". It is Mystery! For when The Lord acts in the interests of one and is accepted or even refused - He is at once also acting in the interests of all - and again Mystery. The good The Lord is doing may not be evident in the life of the one who refuses Him and His Grace; nevertheless it exists somewhere. Mystery.

Trust and confidence in The Lord at all times and in all situations regardless of content.

Edited December 27, 2011 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

Julian of Norwich sums it all up beautifully with the crystal clarity of insight as only the mystic can in brief words that penetrate to the heart of the Mystery of God:

"All is well, all is well and all things shall be well".

[BarbTherese]

Does all the above apply in the face of the dreadful sufferings of the innocent. Yes it all does apply - but if we apply the theology without a heart of deep compassion and ardent longing to alleviate innocent suffering - and with a restless mind confused confronted by the dreadful sufferings of the innocent, something is very very wrong spiritually somewhere. Dreadfully wrong.
No Christ without His Cross and the closer we draw to Him, the more evil, suffering and sin will cause us to really grieve - yet deeply at Peace and in Joy in the Mystery of God - the Absolute Other. Paradox!

Edited December 27, 2011 by BarbaraTherese