Realcatholic Tv Instructed Not To Use 'catholic' Name

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1325036719' post='2358352']
I am not the least bit surprised. If you try to start up something 'on your own' and call it Catholic, the diocese is going to get on your case about it. I've seen this happen to independent Catholic schools - if they are not sponsored by the diocese or a religious order, and are just a start up trying to be...Catholic...then they can't call themselves a Catholic school. If they are a legit group, they respect their bishop and do not use the word 'Catholic' in the name, but rather include it in the description of the school being 'in the Catholic tradition' or something like that. If, after a number of years go by, the bishop decides to revisit that decision, he could decide to recognize them as a Catholic school and allow them to use the title. But the general rule is that you *don't* get permission up front.

This is not an example of the diocese targeting Varis or trying to shut him down, but rather standard operating procedure. It is something the Church does to protect the word 'Catholic' and not let just anyone say they are representing the Church. The same thing would apply to any layman starting up their own school/media/retreat center/prayer group/nonprofit, etc. You can't name your organization 'Catholic' without the permission of the Church via the local bishop.

The fact that this is being announced by the diocese publicly (rather than remaining a standard private communication), suggests that there is friction between Varis/RealCatholicTV and the Detroit diocese/bishop. Hopefully this will be resolved in a way that does not leave any bad blood.
[/quote]

Of course there is bad blood between the liberal chancery staff and Voris. He spends his time pointing out their errors and heresies that have been eroding the Holy Catholic Church for 50 years. If the diocese had written a similar letter to Catholics for Choice or the other heretical liberal organizations in the diocese, that would be one thing, but that is not the political undertone here.

[MithLuin]

Yeah, I hate politics. I'm not really familiar with Detroit, so I don't know what's going on there. I was just pointing out that the bishop's request is a reasonable and legitimate one, and that similar requests are made in other dioceses...of perfectly legit groups. You don't have to demonstrate heresy or anything to be asked not to use the name 'Catholic'...simply being an independent group of lay people not affiliated with a parish or religious order would be enough to spark this reaction. Canon law states that you need the bishop's permission to use the word 'Catholic' in your official title.

So...if you use the word 'Catholic' without permission/endorsement, then you will be asked to change the name. Some groups probably do 'get away with' this for longer.

If Voris changes the name, he'll be in the clear (though not necessarily in the good graces of the bishop - that's politics again). Of course, changing the name is a nuisance and involves refiling a bit of paperwork, I'd imagine. So...not easy, but certainly possible.

For groups that have little concern with following the Magisterium, I imagine they would ignore the warnings, which would necessitate the public statement from the bishop. For a group that sincerely wishes to represent the Church, it is important to comply.

[eustace scrubb]

I don't know anything about this situation beyond what was posted here, but I'd just like to say that as a former evangelical, it's amazing and very refreshing to see how important the word "Catholic" is to the Church. In Protestantism, [i]anybody[/i] can say [i]anything[/i] and call themselves a Christian... without [i]any[/i] accountability whatsoever. Which, of course, has led to much confusion, heresy, and the emergence of countless cults. If America was a Catholic nation, groups like the Church of Latter-Day Saints, The Watchtower (Jehovah's Witnesses), Christian Scientists (the organization...), etc would probably have been treated like Arians. And there'd probably be less groups like them.

At the same time, though, when there are bishops and archbishops who are completely out of line with Tradition and Scripture, but the Magisterium ignores it, is it wrong to be publicly critical? I have the same question about the papacy -- there have been a few really bad ones who needed to get called (and thrown) out for things (usually heresy). What are we supposed to do in those situations?

[fides' Jack]

[quote name='MIkolbe' timestamp='1325018821' post='2358197']
FTR, I think his obedience will not be an issue. Orthodoxy is nothing without obedience.
[/quote]

I agree. Wholeheartedly.

[Slappo]

I don't think it is as simple as the original post made it sound, and I don't think the canon law is so cut and dry as there are mutliple sections of Canon Law not just 216 that are pertinent.

Also, I heard something about RealCatholicTV operating out of Southbend Indiana, which just adds more mystery to it all. It will be interesting to see how everything plays out. I don't really know whose in the right or wrong, or if the Archbishop is involved or if it is coming from someone within the Chancery (this has been known to happen, see Bp. Warfel's redaction of instruction that was originally put out regarding the EF form in his diocese), but it will be interesting nonetheless.

[Lil Red]

don't even get me started at the situation where Bishop Warfel is at.

[BG45]

Voris claims he's obedient to the Church and to canon law. Therefore he should change the name, if he does not change the name, then he is in contravention of canon law and his own mission statement. He is only being asked to do what others who use the name Catholic, without permission, are asked to do. If he cannot comply, then he is not following Canon law and his mission statement.

I'm personally not a fan of him: his ego is quite large, he deletes comments on his videos that he disagrees with (it was brought up by a member here once that he deleted a comment by), and regularly criticizes anyone who doesn't hold his own narrow view of what "traditional" Catholicism is.

[4588686]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1325119407' post='2358833']
Voris claims he's obedient to the Church and to canon law. Therefore he should change the name, if he does not change the name, then he is in contravention of canon law and his own mission statement. He is only being asked to do what others who use the name Catholic, without permission, are asked to do. If he cannot comply, then he is not following Canon law and his mission statement.

I'm personally not a fan of him: his ego is quite large, he deletes comments on his videos that he disagrees with (it was brought up by a member here once that he deleted a comment by), and regularly criticizes anyone who doesn't hold his own narrow view of what "traditional" Catholicism is.
[/quote]

This is BG45's much more cerebral and thoughtful way of making my point: Voris is a whiny little beesh.

[Papist]

From what I have seen, Voris many times tells stories of Catholics not being very Catholic in a condescending way, which I do not see as a productive apostolate. This just doesn't seem to emit Catholic to me.

I think CatholicCulture made a fair review, [url="http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/view.cfm?recnum=4129"]http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/reviews/view.cfm?recnum=4129[/url]

[Cherie]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1325166842' post='2359274']
From what I have seen, Voris many times tells stories of Catholics not being very Catholic in a condescending way, which I do not see as a productive apostolate. This just doesn't seem to emit Catholic to me.

[/quote]

I agree.

Regardless of whether or not you agree with his thoughts on any particular issue, his methods just don't sit well with me and I don't think they are a good way to address the crisis of catechesis in this country.

Numerous Saints have warned against being publicly critical of priests and especially bishops. They are holy ministers of God and whether we "like" them or not, the bishops are our shepherds and we are obliged to be obedient to them. Even if we disagree with everything they do, they are still the ones who give us Jesus, so we are eternally indebted to them. Don't like them? Pray for them, even talk to them. But don't condescendingly criticize them to the public via a TV station that is broadcast all over the Internet. That just smacks of something unholy.

I hope he is obedient to the bishop.

[MithLuin]

I was fairly indifferent to Voris until WYD.

His video about it didn't really bother me (he was critical of the less-than-modest dress of some participants, which he claimed was an American thing). Didn't show any examples of course, just made the accusation. Fine, no big deal.

...until I realized that, to the online community of Traditional Catholics, his story was *the* story of World Youth Day. A million young people from all over the world gather to meet with the pope. The Church in Spain has a huge upsurgance. Catholic organizations from all over the world gather in one place. A park in the center of the city is filled with booths for Vocations and Reconciliation. Daily mass and adoration are the norm. Teens are listening to their bishops instruct them in the faith.

And all these people wanted to talk about was whether or not young people were meeting modesty standards. I was there; the majority were. I didn't see short shorts and tank tops. I saw long shorts and t-shirts, girls in modest dresses and sandals. It was over 90° and sunny for most of the week, and people were collapsing of heat stroke. The pilgrimage involved walking (possibly 10 mi, depending on where you started) and camping out over night in a thunderstorm. There were firetrucks hosing people down to avoid the aforementioned heat stroke.

Despite that, I wore a blouse and longish skirt for the papal mass. I was not unusual or out of place on the field of a million other young people. In 2013 in Rio, it will be [i]winter[/i] for World Youth Day, so I doubt it will be an issue at that one, either.


So, certainly, modesty in dress is an important topic in the Church, and there are plenty of Americans who seem not to have gotten that message. But that was *NOT* the main story of World Youth Day in Madrid. But to Voris' audience...it was. It reminded me *strongly* of the SSPX's condemnation of WYD in Cologne in 2005. [For the record, the SSPX was much more positive about WYD in Madrid than they have been of the previous gatherings.] Pick something to be scandalized by, and then condemn the entire event as scandalous and a bad thing. Ignore *everything else*. Certainly a case of missing the point entirely. Voris is entitled to his opinion, and perhaps his supporters would have shared that opinion anyway. But it was *extremely* disheartening to realize he was helping people miss the boat. I'm sorry that TRAVELLING TO MEET THE POPE isn't Catholic enough for you.


So, no, I don't find Voris helpful. I don't hate the guy, but I'm not going to be upset if the bishops make some effort to shut him down, either. In my view, he is harmless, but not helpful. For his own sake, I hope he is obedient. If he can't get along with his current bishop, he can move to a place where he can get the approval of the local bishop. If he cannot find such a place....then perhaps 'RealCatholicTV' isn't a good name for his organization after all.

Edited December 29, 2011 by MithLuin

[BG45]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1325180325' post='2359376']
*Snips Voris WYD*
So, no, I don't find Voris helpful. I don't hate the guy, but I'm not going to be upset if the bishops make some effort to shut him down, either. In my view, he is harmless, but not helpful. For his own sake, I hope he is obedient. If he can't get along with his current bishop, he can move to a place where he can get the approval of the local bishop. If he cannot find such a place....then perhaps 'RealCatholicTV' isn't a good name for his organization after all.
[/quote]
If I could prop this more than once, I totally would. During WYD when I looked around some of the more Trad Catholic Boards, you would have thought it was some sort of Polyamorous Pagan Woodstock overflowing with people dressed for ease of having sex, mainly based on what Voris said that vindicated their ideas of the evils of modernism and state of dress and morality.

Also couldn't agree more with the paragraph I left in when I snipped so as not to have a smaller reply than the post I was replying to.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1325118630' post='2358814']
don't even get me started at the situation where Bishop Warfel is at.
[/quote]

I don't know that much about the situation where Bp. Warfel is. All i know is that instruction was given that was later removed pretty darn fast and new instruction published. . I just don't take for granted that everything that comes from a chancery went through the Bishop, because it is often not the case, especially i am sure with Archdioceses where the diocese is much too big to have everything run by the bishop.

He was my old Bishop when he was in S.E. Alaska