Existentialists

[luciana]

I actually received an Albert Camus book,The Stranger paperback, from a girl as grab bag Christmas gift!!!

She was in the same club I was in in my first yr.in college. At the time I didn't know who he was and she told me he was a good Fr. author! I read it and did find it very depressing.
Camus, I believe, was a fallen-away Catholic and that influenced some of his thinking/writing.

[M.SIGGA]

[quote name='jessinoelw' date='May 3 2004, 09:28 PM'] Some folks don't care as much for his later books because he had such a great respect for Buddhism, but I've never heard him officially declared to be heterodox.

Some folks just have a very deep respect for other faiths. [/quote]
His connection with Buddhism isn't what makes him heterodox. In his later works Merton tries to parallel the Christian Faith with Sufism, a form of Islamic mysticism, which preaches universal oneness - this is heterodox. Stick with [u]7 Story Mountain[/u].

[BLAZEr]

Oh Lord,

about 95% of what was said above is not accurate. I don't have time right now, but I will find something good on Existentialism and Christian Existentialism . . .

The pope is philosophically an existentialist, particularly, he was profoundly influenced by Edmund Husserl, the father of Phenomenology. Soren Kierkegaard (of whom I haven't read much) is an Existentialist too, and a Catholic.

[Ellenita]

There is Christian existentialism? I didn't realise....apologies if I've misled anyone! However, the form of existentialism which Sartre and many of the French writers of his time subscribed to didn't believe in the existance of God. It may be of course that they took the essential idea and then went further (one step too far?! ) in suggesting the philosophy meant that God didn't exist. However good their writing might be, there is a bleakness about it, which I would think is influenced by their atheism and the experience of the war....

Blazer....looking forward to the info on Christian existentialism....

[BurkeFan]

BLAZEr is right for the most part... not sure on Kierkegaard being Catholic or not though. But, yeah, the Pope is kind of an existential Thomist. I'd write more, but, I'm in hellish finals mode. Too much to do.
In Christ,
Dave

[Lounge Daddy]

[quote name='M.SIGGA' date='May 4 2004, 12:17 AM'] His connection with Buddhism isn't what makes him heterodox. In his later works Merton tries to parallel the Christian Faith with Sufism, a form of Islamic mysticism, which preaches universal oneness - this is heterodox. Stick with [u]7 Story Mountain[/u]. [/quote]
[font="Courier"]Ya, there will never be a "St. Thomas Merton." Too much controversy in his later years.[/font]

[M.SIGGA]

I didn't know there was variation in degrees of existentialism. Sartre coined the phrase "Hell is other people" as a jovial response to a French priest who was questioning his atheism and beliefs on eternity. These sort of responses to existentialist belief in God combined with Sartre has pretty much totally influenced my perception of the philosophy. Please enlighten me on JP2's position. And isn't Thomism sort of Calvinistic or Jansenist?

[Ellenita]

M.Sigga, I'm glad I'm not the only one confused!!

That Blazer better come back to us........

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
5/4 - Fourth Tuesday of Easter

From what I understand, existentialism takes its philosophical starting point from man and human experience, seeking to explain the universe in relation to him. Pope John Paul II's philosophy is strongly existentialist, but there are strongly phenomenological parts to it as well. Kierkegaard (if one can even begin to read him) is a rather good existentialist, though he was a Lutheran.

Nietschze (sic) wasn't a terribly great philosopher; in fact, his own philosophy literally drove him insane; he died in a mental ward. So much for Nietschzeism.

[Pio Nono]

JMJ
5/4 - Fourth Tuesday of Easter

BTW, Thomism (as a philosophical system) is strongly Aristotelian/Platonic in character, not Jansenist. It is, quite possibly, the best philosophical system available to man; that conclusion comes not from Thomas, but from Ockham's Razor.

[morostheos]

Here's an article on existentialism from Catholic culture, it certainly doesn't paint a pretty picture...

I don't know much personally, although I have certainly heard of Christian existentialism before.

[url="http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=3749"]http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=3749[/url]

[Theologian in Training]

[quote name='Pio Nono' date='May 4 2004, 03:39 PM'] Nietschze (sic) wasn't a terribly great philosopher; in fact, his own philosophy literally drove him insane; he died in a mental ward.  So much for Nietschzeism. [/quote]
True, though the Syphilis might have accounted for a lot of his insanity as well

As to this thread in general, I agree with Blazer about some misinformation and sketchy definitions going around. Although there is a Christian existentialism, it is not really referred to that as such. In fact, it is what is better known as theistic existentialism. This is the where people like Kuerkegaard, Martin Buber, and Karl Jaspers fell.

(The following is from a recent paper I wrote with regard to existential psychology comparing it to theistic existentialism)

Existentialism is a “current” or “trend” (Childers and Hentzi, 1995) that seeks to underscore the tension that seemingly exists between ontology and epistemology, or, in simpler terms, “the problem of being over that of knowledge” (Ibid). This can be further understood in light of a division between a theistic existentialism and an atheistic existentialism. A theistic existentialism is one that allows a type of transcendence of the individual, whereas, an atheistic one relies heavily upon the choices an individual makes. In other words, identity is formed either by a view to a transcendent reality, or a reality of self-reliance, whereby the individual’s life is shaped by one’s own choices, be they good or evil. It should be emphasized, however, that this type of worldview results in coming to understand the world as nothing more than appearance, meaningless, and, in some respects, “absurd” (Ibid).

Therefore, when you read in Camus' work, [i]The Stranger[/i] the beginning lines where there is almost a biting indifference towards the death of his grandmother he is emphasizing this very tension that for him results in meaninglessness.

BTW, Papal household preacher, Raniero Cantalamessa relies heavily upon the thought of Kierkegaard and paints a very beautiful picture with his writings, especially in his book, [i]Virginity[/i]

Hope that helps

God Bless

[kdewolf2]

[quote]Soren Kierkegaard (of whom I haven't read much) is an Existentialist too, and a Catholic.[/quote]

Nope, he's LUTHERAN.

[quote]There is Christian existentialism?[/quote]

Of course. It includes Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Blaise Pascal, and Gabriel Marcel as well, and many 20th ce. theologians (both Catholic and Protestant) were influenced by existentialism. The problem is that existentialism is not a coherent philosophy but a variety of individual philosophies united only by a common concerns. Most of it is pretty bleak stuff, though.

[VeraMaria]

wow, that actually came up in class today, and thanks to this thread I knew what it was!

[Colleen]

[quote name='jessinoelw' date='May 3 2004, 10:25 PM'] Albert Camus started out very existentialistic but eventually separated himself from the idea and the term. [/quote]
Really? I was just forced to read his book, the Plague, for school. We couldn't come up with a clear definition of existentialism in class, either.

But it's cool to know that there's a Christian version of it.

[quote]Jean Paul Sartre and Simeon de Beauvoir both subscribed to the philosophy.[/quote]
de Beauvoir! *gets sick* :dead: