prov31girl Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 Ok, there was a couple of questions I wanted y'all to answer for me and then I'll get into the reason why I'm asking. For all you parents out there, is there anything your children could possibly do to make you not love them anymore? For everyone, do you believe Jesus was enough? (vague, I know, but there's a reason for that) Do you believe everything Paul says in the New Testament? After I get some answers from people, I'll explain a little better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted May 2, 2004 Share Posted May 2, 2004 [quote name='prov31girl' date='May 2 2004, 03:57 PM'] Ok, there was a couple of questions I wanted y'all to answer for me and then I'll get into the reason why I'm asking. For all you parents out there, is there anything your children could possibly do to make you not love them anymore? For everyone, do you believe Jesus was enough? (vague, I know, but there's a reason for that) Do you believe everything Paul says in the New Testament? After I get some answers from people, I'll explain a little better. [/quote] No, there is nothing my offspring could do to make me stop loving him. Love is unconditional. I'd love the offender, hate the offense. Is Jesus enough for what? I believe everything the New Testament teaches (including Paul's writings), as rightly interpreted by the Catholic Church, who wrote it and alone understands its true meaning. The NT has to be read in the heart of the living, believing, teaching Church. The Church wrote it to herself. Some try to make it into an instruction book for Christianity. It isn't. JMJ Likos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov31girl Posted May 3, 2004 Author Share Posted May 3, 2004 bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 (edited) Well, Likos is a hard act to follow... I'm not even going to try. You said it, Jay! Nope, we love our kids no matter what, and yes, we believe in the entire Bible, all 72 books. [i]Do you? [/i] Your questions seem loaded...I'm sorry. I half expect some protestant evangelical instruction coming on. Am I far from wrong? Pax Christi. <>< Edited May 3, 2004 by Anna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironmonk Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 I would still love the child, but if that child did not want to be in my house, they do have the freedom of will. Likewise, we are the children of God, but there are some who God is not their father, satan is.... as Christ said... [b]John 8:43[/b] [color=red]Why do you not understand what I am saying? Because you cannot bear to hear my word.[/color] [b]44 [/b][color=red][b]You belong to your father the devil [/b]and you willingly carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning and does not stand in truth, because there is no truth in him. When he tells a lie, he speaks in character, because he is a liar and the father of lies. [/color] [b]45 [/b][color=red]But because I speak the truth, you do not believe me. [/color] Those who belong to God, obey God. Those who belong to the devil are the children of the devil and carry out his wicked desires... God Bless, ironmonk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatcatholic Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 prov31girl............i'm interested to read your reasoning behind those questions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov31girl Posted May 3, 2004 Author Share Posted May 3, 2004 Ok, yes those are loaded questions, but no this is not some evangelical instruction coming on. I feel there is no need to evangelize here, I have complete confidence that I will meet you all in the kingdom of heaven. My main purpose with this thread is to get you guys to see something from a different perspective. I don't even want to debate about it, although that is something likely to happen. I'll present my reasoning for those questions this evening. I can't right now because I'm at work, but in the meantime I want to hear some more answers to my questions. Pleeeeeeeeease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iacobus Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 I have no kids, as I am yet to marry, but looking on my relationship with my friends and my family and my dog I might get a bit testy and upset with them but it would be short lived and I would never not love them. Are you asking if Jesus was enough for our sins to be forgiven? Yes he is. If that is not what you are asking than I am confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 [quote name='prov31girl' date='May 2 2004, 04:57 PM']Ok, there was a couple of questions I wanted y'all to answer for me and then I'll get into the reason why I'm asking. For all you parents out there, is there anything your children could possibly do to make you not love them anymore? For everyone, do you believe Jesus was enough? (vague, I know, but there's a reason for that) Do you believe everything Paul says in the New Testament? After I get some answers from people, I'll explain a little better.[/quote] :scratch: What are you up to? Why wouldn't we believe everything St. Paul wrote, it was inspired by the Holy Spirit was it not? The question is do you believe EVERYTHING that the Holy Spirit has written in Sacred Scripture. Is Jesus enough, well of course, the question is do you follow His example that He left, and His ONE TEACHING? For your question with my children, I will always love them. As long as they live under my roof God has given me a duty to make sure I take care of their souls. I will carry that out by the grace he gives me. No matter what they do I will always love them, I will not always approve, but I will always love. God Bless Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 Yeah, I'm with the others on this... I'm not really sure if you're expecting different answers or what. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mamalove Posted May 3, 2004 Share Posted May 3, 2004 [quote name='prov31girl' date='May 2 2004, 03:57 PM'] Ok, there was a couple of questions I wanted y'all to answer for me and then I'll get into the reason why I'm asking. For all you parents out there, is there anything your children could possibly do to make you not love them anymore? For everyone, do you believe Jesus was enough? (vague, I know, but there's a reason for that) Do you believe everything Paul says in the New Testament? After I get some answers from people, I'll explain a little better. [/quote] I agree with the others. I will always love my children no matter what they do. However, I can still kick them out of the house. Jesus was/is God, so how can he not be enough? We are the unworthy ones. Yes, I believe Paul. But everything has to be taken into the context that the Holy Spirit meant. Because the Spirit speaks to the Church, I trust Her to interpret correctly what the Spirit meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prov31girl Posted May 3, 2004 Author Share Posted May 3, 2004 Ok, I'm finally gonna give you my reasons for my questions. I'll tell you up front it has to do with eternal security (whether or not you can lose your salvation). My point with the parents question is this: if we as human beings love our kids enough to never disown them no matter what they do or how rebellious they are, then how on earth could you possibly think that God, our heavenly father who is beyond any human love, would ever disown us and take our salvation away? God loves us more than humanly possible, I just can't see Him saying "ok...you're too bad for me to handle, I'm giving up on you." No way. 1 Peter 1 3Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can [b]never perish, spoil or fade--[/b]kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time. Isaiah 45 17 But Israel will be saved by the LORD with an [b]everlasting salvation[/b]; you will never be put to shame or disgraced, to ages everlasting. As for the next question of is Jesus enough. A lot of you said "enough for what". For anything, but mainly is he enough to save us? I think so, but if you believe that you can lose your salvation because you're not good enough, then that's saying that the cross wasn't enough. John 17 12While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. [b]None has been lost [/b]except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. John 18 9This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: "[b]I have not lost one of those you gave me[/b]." Hebrews 7 25Therefore he is able to save[b] completely [/b]those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. And as for whether or not you believe everything Paul says well...here it is: WE ARE SAYING THE APOSTLE PAUL IS A LIAR Philippians 1 6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. Romans 11 29for God's gifts and his call are irrevocable. Finally here's one more thing that just came to my attention. It is believed that Peter was the first pope, correct? Wouldn't you think that if it is possible to lose your salvation that he would have been one of the first to go? He directly denied Jesus Christ in His very presence. I think that's about the worst you could possibly do in God's eyes. Now...I read in an article at www.catholic.com that they believe that protestants feel that you can accept Christ and then do whatever you want and get away with it. That is wrong. I feel that if you "accept Christ" and then you do not change at all, then you didn't accept Him to begin with. When we accept Christ, we are given a new, sinless, stainless, pure body through His death on the cross. You can't have that new body and then just go on about your old ways. A good example is in Luke 5:36-39: 36He told them this parable: "No one tears a patch from a new garment and sews it on an old one. If he does, he will have torn the new garment, and the patch from the new will not match the old. 37And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will run out and the wineskins will be ruined. 38No, new wine must be poured into new wineskins. 39And no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for he says, 'The old is better.' " But that's kinda gettin into a different issue. Ok, so I've said my intial peace. I'm looking forward to hearing what everyone has to say. I honestly don't want this to turn into a nasty debate, I just wanted to offer a different perspective and get some perspectives from y'all. God bless you all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 (edited) [quote]I just can't see Him saying "ok...you're too bad for me to handle, I'm giving up on you." No way. [/quote] Humans can turn on God and say, "I don't need you." That is when we can lose our salvation. Why do you think there is a Hell? Or do you not believe in Hell since we are all saved by the cross? [quote]John 17 12While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. John 18 9This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: "I have not lost one of those you gave me." Hebrews 7 25Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them. And as for whether or not you believe everything Paul says well...here it is: WE ARE SAYING THE APOSTLE PAUL IS A LIAR[/quote] And that is why personal interpretation is dangerous....... [quote]Wouldn't you think that if it is possible to lose your salvation that he would have been one of the first to go? He directly denied Jesus Christ in His very presence. I think that's about the worst you could possibly do in God's eyes. [/quote] And? did you not read further than Peter's denial? Did you read the rest of his life? His repentance? His death for Christ Himself? It just sounds like your taking things out of context to fit a certain agenda that is too, "Security Blanket" theroy again. [quote]Now...I read in an article at www.catholic.com that they believe that protestants feel that you can accept Christ and then do whatever you want and get away with it. That is wrong. I feel that if you "accept Christ" and then you do not change at all, then you didn't accept Him to begin with.[/quote] There are many protestant denomintations, not all believing the same thing. This is correct for the majority of protestant denominations, not all. The protestant denomination is not in unity of the teachings of salvation even as a Protestant denomination. I hope that helps some. God Bless. Edited May 4, 2004 by jmjtina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katholikos Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 "Won't you come into my parlor?" said the spider to the fly. :roll: :laugh: There are already two very active OSAS threads on the Debate forum. Do you really think we need a third? Hint: The New Testament is not an instruction book in Christianity. It was written by the Catholic Church to herself during the first 100 years or so of her existence. Squeeze the NT anyway you want to; you still can't get OSAS out of it. As an (ex-) OSAS-believing Baptist, I've been there, done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmjtina Posted May 4, 2004 Share Posted May 4, 2004 [quote name='Katholikos' date='May 3 2004, 06:43 PM'] "Won't you come into my parlor?" said the spider to the fly. :roll: :laugh: There are already two very active OSAS threads on the Debate forum. Do you really think we need a third? Hint: The New Testament is not an instruction book in Christianity. It was written by the Catholic Church to herself during the first 100 years or so of her existence. Squeeze the NT anyway you want to; you still can't get OSAS out of it. As an (ex-) OSAS-believing Baptist, I've been there, done that. [/quote] I thought I was seeing triple! Where are my glasses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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