Article For Those Picking A College Major

[Nihil Obstat]

I'm not sure that kids should be encouraged to go to college quite as much as they are now. I'm not saying for a second that learning is not a good thing, and I'm not saying that kids don't deserve every opportunity...
However, what I am saying is that there is a lot of useless fluff in universities right now. There is something to be said for learning for the sake of learning, but at what cost? At what point should you sit back and ask yourself "is this learning for the sake of learning actually worth 50 grand a year?"
Kids should be encouraged to be the best people they can be. They absolutely should spend time doing what they love, and they should also spend time preparing to become self-sufficient, even able to support a family. I think at this point we're overemphasizing doing what they love [i]at the expense[/i] of being able to support themselves and their future families.

Essentially, for me it all boils down to this: is it actually worthwhile to spend 4-6 years doing a humanities degree with no practical application, when instead you could save all of that tuition and be working in the meantime? For some people maybe, those people will always exist, and they should have that opportunity if they decide that it's what they truly want to do. However, I don't think we should be telling kids to go to college simply for the sake of going to college. It's not an end in itself, except for those fairly uncommon people whose greatest passion in life is being an academic.
Furthermore, there are so many ways to learn for the sake of learning outside of a college or university. If you really truly love philosophy, then buy some of the classics, read them, read the criticism and the responses and the debates. Do it for a fraction of the cost. If the goal truly is learning for the sake of learning, then that's exactly what that person is looking for anyway.

I'm gonna stop before I rant for the next hour. I don't know why I'm in such a ranting mood today.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1324054610' post='2352307']

Grad school is a "do over" option I don't have money for. Even community college is going to be a massive stretch, given my current level of debt.
[/quote]

Is there any way that you can get scholarships for grad students at the state level? Go to Fastweb.com and FAFSA and do a search. I'm sure there is something out there. You might even talk to the academic advisor at the school you are interested in. If you are considering going to a junior college, there are all sorts of resources. I know, because I went to one. Don't give up yet. Pursue all avenues.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1324489933' post='2355183']
I'm not sure that kids should be encouraged to go to college quite as much as they are now. I'm not saying for a second that learning is not a good thing, and I'm not saying that kids don't deserve every opportunity...
However, what I am saying is that there is a lot of useless fluff in universities right now. There is something to be said for learning for the sake of learning, but at what cost? At what point should you sit back and ask yourself "is this learning for the sake of learning actually worth 50 grand a year?"
Kids should be encouraged to be the best people they can be. They absolutely should spend time doing what they love, and they should also spend time preparing to become self-sufficient, even able to support a family. I think at this point we're overemphasizing doing what they love [i]at the expense[/i] of being able to support themselves and their future families.

Essentially, for me it all boils down to this: is it actually worthwhile to spend 4-6 years doing a humanities degree with no practical application, when instead you could save all of that tuition and be working in the meantime? For some people maybe, those people will always exist, and they should have that opportunity if they decide that it's what they truly want to do. However, I don't think we should be telling kids to go to college simply for the sake of going to college. It's not an end in itself, except for those fairly uncommon people whose greatest passion in life is being an academic.
Furthermore, there are so many ways to learn for the sake of learning outside of a college or university. If you really truly love philosophy, then buy some of the classics, read them, read the criticism and the responses and the debates. Do it for a fraction of the cost. If the goal truly is learning for the sake of learning, then that's exactly what that person is looking for anyway.

I'm gonna stop before I rant for the next hour. I don't know why I'm in such a ranting mood today.
[/quote]

I am definitely a believer that college is a calling and that not every kid may be called to that.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1324491338' post='2355204']
I am definitely a believer that college is a calling and that not every kid may be called to that.
[/quote]

If brevity is the soul of wit, I'm not very witty.

[MIKolbe]

iawtc

[Nihil Obstat]

PLEASE NOTE THE CONDITIONAL IF-THEN STATEMENT. LOGICALLY THIS ALSO ENTAILS THAT IF BREVITY [i]IS NOT[/i] THE SOUL OF WIT, THEN IT IS STILL POSSIBLE THAT I AM WITTY.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1324491500' post='2355209']
If brevity is the soul of wit, I'm not very witty.
[/quote]
I was actually quite proud of myself for being able to say what I did without getting mouth diarrhea like I usually do.


And I commend your knowledge of the proper use of if-then conditional statements.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1324491955' post='2355220']
I was actually quite proud of myself for being able to say what I did without getting mouth diarrhea like I usually do.


And I commend your knowledge of the proper use of if-then conditional statements.
[/quote]
I've taken both philosophy options and computer science requirements.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1324492074' post='2355223']
I've taken both philosophy options and computer science requirements.
[/quote]
The only reason I know about conditional is because I'm a Classics major

[4588686]

[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1324190015' post='2353202']
I have not yet met with a classically educated person who has been successful (which I'm going to define as, makes enough money to have a family and home of his own) who was not either very rich to begin with, or very very lucky. I'm not rich. I'm hoping I get lucky, or I'm gonna be a poor bachelor for a long long time.
[/quote]

Well...no poo

If you major in classics, only classics and only get an undergrad degree, then what do you expect to do after you graduate? I guess if you have a high GPA and go to a really good school that's one thing because it does demonstrate intelligence and work ethic but other than that you have to accept that the very content of a classics major, knowledge about and study of the classical world, precludes it from having any relevance in the modern job market.

[4588686]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1324492229' post='2355227']
The only reason I know about conditional is because I'm a Classics major
[/quote]

Or you took a basic philosophy/mathematical logic class.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1324495604' post='2355256']
Or you took a basic philosophy/mathematical logic class.
[/quote]
Both. lol.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1324484200' post='2355122']

I'm not sure what you mean. I go to a liberal arts college and I have not found there to be any emphasis on racking up credits to graduate. It seems like the focus is on completing the "core," which does require a certain amount of credits in each subject, but it's designed to make the student well-rounded, not to accumulate credits. Granted, a lot of students look at non-major classes as a to-do list to be checked off. But I think I might be misunderstanding what you're saying.
[/quote]

Yes, I meant the core. It's a really big pain especially when you transfer to another school, especially if you had to do it multiple times like in my situation. I didn't expect to do that more than once, but my circumstances called for it. I tried to get in classes at my first school that would transfer to meet core requirements, but they weren't enough.

I've noticed that at a lot of the schools on the Newman Guide that they have very particular core requirements which make it super hard to transfer to after 2 years going full time at another school. You pretty much have to start over or do a lot to make up for the classes that you need to fulfill the core, even if they have nothing to do with your major. Some of those schools don't even have majors, but are simply four years of liberal arts.

Yet I wouldn't give up attending my first years of college at the original two year school I attended. Ironically I learned more there than at the places I transfered to, made many friends, had staff who did a much better job than at either of the transfer schools, and I was very happy. The college is very unique and I wholeheartedly endorse it (Cottey College). I even got to go to Florence and Rome during my spring break my second year since second years get to go on a trip.

Even though I'm unhappy where I'm at, I'm a senior who graduates in early May, so it would be silly for me to transfer a third time. Unfortunately, I've just had really bad experiences and am saddened that I won't get to learn most of what I intended to until graduate school. At least I've never had debt at any of the schools I've attended.

[DMcB]

If these choices and consequences exist when my children are mulling these issues, and assuming they're choosing to go to college at some point in their young lives, my advice will be to double major: classics/social science & a professional degree. It will cost more and take longer, but if they're in this conundrum, it may be a good way to keep them interested/satisfied with their studies while acquiring career credentials.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1324510924' post='2355486']
Yes, I meant the core. It's a really big pain especially when you transfer to another school, especially if you had to do it multiple times like in my situation. I didn't expect to do that more than once, but my circumstances called for it. I tried to get in classes at my first school that would transfer to meet core requirements, but they weren't enough.

I've noticed that at a lot of the schools on the Newman Guide that they have very particular core requirements which make it super hard to transfer to after 2 years going full time at another school. You pretty much have to start over or do a lot to make up for the classes that you need to fulfill the core, even if they have nothing to do with your major. Some of those schools don't even have majors, but are simply four years of liberal arts.

Yet I wouldn't give up attending my first years of college at the original two year school I attended. Ironically I learned more there than at the places I transfered to, made many friends, had staff who did a much better job than at either of the transfer schools, and I was very happy. The college is very unique and I wholeheartedly endorse it (Cottey College). I even got to go to Florence and Rome during my spring break my second year since second years get to go on a trip.

Even though I'm unhappy where I'm at, I'm a senior who graduates in early May, so it would be silly for me to transfer a third time. Unfortunately, I've just had really bad experiences and am saddened that I won't get to learn most of what I intended to until graduate school. At least I've never had debt at any of the schools I've attended.
[/quote]

I have heard a lot of complaints about the core interfering with transfer credits. I know it's inconvenient, but I don't think that the structure of the program should be adjusted to accommodate transfers in that they not be required to take the same courses, because when you graduate from a liberal arts four-year university, you're graduating with a degree that has a sense of the whole. I don't want to say that these kinds of schools are not meant for transfers, but I would say that you should want the whole package at any four-year liberal arts school you go to before you go, otherwise you'll be disappointed. I don't think liberal arts schools are geared towards their majors as much as they are the core + the major, with emphasis on the core, because that's the part that sets their students apart from other four-year universities. If we compromised that for anyone (transfers, or whomever) that would not be good. My school recently got rid of its Latin requirement, and for that reason, I won't be contributing as an alumna, because I feel a compromise has been made that I can't reconcile with.