Consecration To Mary?

[brianthephysicist]

So this might sound weird, but I don't understand the idea of consecration to Mary. I have a very strong devotion to Mary and she's helped me out more than I could even begin to imagine, but I don't quite get the consecration. The various consecration prayers talk about becoming a slave of hers and it just confuses me. Like, on one level I understand the whole "to Christ through Mary" philosophy, because in my own experience, she's led me closer to Him, but there's something deeper that I'm missing. I pray for Mary's help often, but I feel like becoming a slave of Mary takes it a tad too far.

Can someone explain this to me because I just don't get it.

[Nihil Obstat]

This would be a pretty decent start.

St. Louis de Montfort ([url="http://fisheaters.com/totalconsecrationbook3.html"]quoted from Fisheaters[/url]):

[color=#000000][font=Times][size=1]
[font="arial, helvetica, verdana, sans-serif"][size="2"][b]Second principle: We belong to Jesus and Mary as their slaves [/b]

68. From what Jesus Christ is in regard to us we must conclude, as St. Paul says, that we belong not to ourselves but entirely to him as his members and his slaves, for he bought us at an infinite price - the shedding of his Precious Blood. Before baptism, we belonged to the devil as slaves, but baptism made us in very truth slaves of Jesus.

We must therefore live, work and die for the sole purpose of bringing forth fruit for him, glorifying him in our body and letting him reign in our soul. We are his conquest, the people he has won, his heritage.

It is for this reason that the Holy Spirit compares us: 1) to trees that are planted along the waters of grace in the field of the Church and which must bear their fruit when the time comes; 2) to branches of the vine of which Jesus is the stem, which must yield good grapes; 3) to a flock of sheep of which Jesus is the Shepherd, which must increase and give milk; 4) to good soil cultivated by God, where the seed will spread and produce crops up to thirty-fold, sixty-fold, or a hundred-fold. Our Lord cursed the barren fig-tree and condemned the slothful servant who wasted his talent.

All this proves that he wishes to receive some fruit from our wretched selves, namely, our good works, which by right belong to him alone, "created in Jesus Christ for good works". These words of the Holy Spirit show that Jesus is the sole source and must be the sole end of all our good works, and that we must serve him not just as paid servants but as slaves of love. Let me explain what I mean.

69. There are two ways of belonging to another person and being subject to his authority. One is by ordinary service and the other is by slavery. And so we must use the terms "servant" and "slave". Ordinary service in Christian countries is when a man is employed to serve another for a certain length of time at a wage which is fixed or agreed upon. When a man is totally dependent on another for life, and must serve his master without expecting any wages or recompense, when he is treated just like a beast of the field over which the owner has the right of life and death, then it is slavery.

70. Now there are three kinds of slavery; natural slavery, enforced slavery, and voluntary slavery. All creatures are slaves of God in the first sense, for "the earth and its fullness belong to the Lord". The devils and the damned are slaves in the second sense. The saints in heaven and the just on earth are slaves in the third sense. Voluntary slavery is the most perfect of all three states, for by it we give the greatest glory to God, who looks into the heart and wants it to be given to him. Is he not indeed called the God of the heart or of the loving will? For by this slavery we freely choose God and his service before all things, even if we were not by our very nature obliged to do so.

71. There is a world of difference between a servant and a slave. 1) A servant does not give his employer all he is, all he has, and all he can acquire by himself or through others. A slave, however, gives himself to his master completely and exclusively with all he has and all he can acquire. 2) A servant demands wages for the services rendered to his employer. A slave, on the other hand, can expect nothing, no matter what skill, attention or energy he may have put into his work. 3) A servant can leave his employer whenever he pleases, or at least when the term of his service expires, whereas the slave has no such right. 4) An employer has no right of life and death over a servant. Were he to kill him as he would a beast of burden, he would commit murder. But the master of a slave has by law the right of life and death over him, so that he can sell him to anyone he chooses or - if you will pardon the comparison - kill him as he would kill his horse. 5) Finally, a servant is in his employer's service only for a time; a slave for always.

72. No other human state involves belonging more completely to another than slavery. Among Christian peoples, nothing makes a person belong more completely to Jesus and his holy Mother than voluntary slavery. Our Lord himself gave us the example of this when out of love for us he "took the form of a slave". Our Lady gave us the same example when she called herself the handmaid or slave of the Lord. The Apostle considered it an honour to be called "slave of Christ". Several times in Holy Scripture, Christians are referred to as "slaves of Christ".

The Latin word "servus" at one time signified only a slave because servants as we know them did not exist. Masters were served either by slaves or by freedmen. The Catechism of the Council of Trent leaves no doubt about our being slaves of Jesus Christ, using the unequivocal term "Mancipia Christi", which plainly means: slaves of Christ.

73. Granting this, I say that we must belong to Jesus and serve him not just as hired servants but as willing slaves who, moved by generous love, commit themselves to his service after the manner of slaves for the honour of belonging to him. Before we were baptised we were the slaves of the devil, but baptism made us the slaves of Jesus. Christians can only be slaves of the devil or slaves of Christ.

74. What I say in an absolute sense of our Lord, I say in a relative sense of our Blessed Lady. Jesus, in choosing her as his inseparable associate in his life, glory and power in heaven and on earth, has given her by grace in his kingdom all the same rights and privileges that he possesses by nature. "All that belongs to God by nature belongs to Mary by grace", say the saints, and, according to them, just as Jesus and Mary have the same will and the same power, they have also the same subjects, servants and slaves.

75. Following therefore the teaching of the saints and of many great men we can call ourselves, and become, the loving slaves of our Blessed Lady in order to become more perfect slaves of Jesus. Mary is the means our Lord chose to come to us and she is also the means we should choose to go to him, for she is not like other creatures who tend rather to lead us away from God than towards him, if we are over-attached to them. Mary's strongest inclination is to unite us to Jesus, her Son, and her Son's strongest wish is that we come to him through his Blessed Mother. He is pleased and honoured just as a king would be pleased and honoured if a citizen, wanting to become a better subject and slave of the king, made himself the slave of the queen. That is why the Fathers of the Church, and St. Bonaventure after them, assert that the Blessed Virgin is the way which leads to our Lord.

76. Moreover, if, as I have said, the Blessed Virgin is the Queen and Sovereign of heaven and earth, does she not then have as many subjects and slaves as there are creatures? "All things, including Mary herself, are subject to the power of God. All things, God included, are subject to the Virgin's power", so we are told by St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine and St. Bonaventure. Is it not reasonable to find that among so many slaves there should be some slaves of love, who freely choose Mary as their Queen? Should men and demons have willing slaves, and Mary have none? A king makes it a point of honour that the queen, his consort, should have her own slaves, over whom she has right of life and death, for honour and power given to the queen is honour and power given to the king. Could we possibly believe that Jesus, the best of all sons, who shared his power with his Blessed Mother, would resent her having her own slaves? Has he less esteem and love for his Mother than Ahasuerus had for Esther, or Solomon for Bathsheba? Who could say or even think such a thing?

77. But where is my pen leading me? Why am I wasting my time proving something so obvious? If people are unwilling to call themselves slaves of Mary, what does it matter? Let them become and call themselves slaves of Jesus Christ, for this is the same as being slaves of Mary, since Jesus is the fruit and glory of Mary. This is what we do perfectly in the devotion we shall discuss later.[/size][/font][/size][/font][/color]

[MissyP89]

nvm

Edited December 12, 2011 by MissyP89

[brianthephysicist]

Dude, I'm really sorry, but I read that and I still feel like I missed something. Like, I understood everything in the beginning about the idea of what slavery to Christ means and I completely agree, we should become slaves to Christ. But I'm missing the point where becoming a slave to Christ means becoming a slave to Mary or where becoming a slave to Mary means becoming a slave to Christ. I think it happens in line 74, but I'm still missing something. I think it has something to do with a trouble in my comprehension of the idea of her "Queenhood".

There are two quotes that really narrow down what I'm talking about: "All that belongs to God by nature belongs to Mary by grace" and "All things, including Mary herself, are subject to the power of God. All things, God included, are subject to the Virgin's power". I feel like the author of this is setting her on equal footing with God, but that doesn't make sense. Like, he specifies that she was given this (by grace) but how is she able to be at this position of power glory equal to God?

There's something really crucial that I'm missing.

[Lil Red]

i think it was Theoketos (the phatmasser) who explained this really well, because I know we've had this question before. I'll see if I can't find his response or just ask him to respond here.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='brianthephysicist' timestamp='1323663237' post='2349613']
Dude, I'm really sorry, but I read that and I still feel like I missed something. Like, I understood everything in the beginning about the idea of what slavery to Christ means and I completely agree, we should become slaves to Christ. But I'm missing the point where becoming a slave to Christ means becoming a slave to Mary or where becoming a slave to Mary means becoming a slave to Christ. I think it happens in line 74, but I'm still missing something. I think it has something to do with a trouble in my comprehension of the idea of her "Queenhood".

There are two quotes that really narrow down what I'm talking about: "All that belongs to God by nature belongs to Mary by grace" and "All things, including Mary herself, are subject to the power of God. All things, God included, are subject to the Virgin's power". I feel like the author of this is setting her on equal footing with God, but that doesn't make sense. Like, he specifies that she was given this (by grace) but how is she able to be at this position of power glory equal to God?

There's something really crucial that I'm missing.
[/quote]
Well the way I'm understanding it at least is like this:

Mary was chosen as the first of all created beings, and the notion of hyperdulia expresses this really well. She's not just above us, but above us in a completely different sense, in a league of her own. So, being the Queen of Heaven, and the Mother of God, all of our salvation is linked just as closely to her as it is to Christ, simply because Christ has chosen Mary to be intimately, inseparably linked with Him. Salvation, Christ, come into the world, to us, through Mary. Therefore by being a slave of Christ, which you did understand, we're automatically making ourselves a slave of Mary as well, simply because every aspect of our salvation comes to us from Christ through her.
What Montfort is saying in section 74 is that the Kingdom, power, and glory all belong to Jesus because of His Nature, and since he chose Mary as His Mother and His Divine Spouse, all those things belong to her [i]because He gave them to her[/i].
The other thing that helps me understand Mary well is by thinking of her as being the Church, which is theologically very true, and I'm sure you understand that as well as I do. All salvation comes through the Church, which is Mary. Outside of the Church, out from under Mary's mantle, there is no salvation. This is true because the Church was given to us by Christ. He chose to offer us his Salvation through the Church, which is Mary. Therefore when we pledge our lives to the Church, we are at the same time pledging our lives to Mary, and through her, to Christ.

Iunno, is that helping at all?

[brianthephysicist]

Yea, it does help. Still not completely there yet, but I'ma mull this over for awhile. Thank you

[Nihil Obstat]

I wonder if St. Louis de Montfort consciously devoted his entire theological career to trolling anti-Marian Protestants...

Seems like something I would do, except smarter.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Nihil Obstat

[MarysLittleFlower]

[quote name='brianthephysicist' timestamp='1323660889' post='2349575']
So this might sound weird, but I don't understand the idea of consecration to Mary. I have a very strong devotion to Mary and she's helped me out more than I could even begin to imagine, but I don't quite get the consecration. The various consecration prayers talk about becoming a slave of hers and it just confuses me. Like, on one level I understand the whole "to Christ through Mary" philosophy, because in my own experience, she's led me closer to Him, but there's something deeper that I'm missing. I pray for Mary's help often, but I feel like becoming a slave of Mary takes it a tad too far.

Can someone explain this to me because I just don't get it.
[/quote]

This is explained in the book "True Devotion to Mary" by St Louis de Montfort

the basic idea, is that - you give yourself to Jesus through Mary, rather than directly to Jesus, because she can make the offering better and add her own prayers, help, merits, etc. Then you ask her to help lead you to God and live a life worthy of the Gospel. The reason it's called "holy slavery" (the slavery is actually ultimately to Jesus..) is described in the book.. it's voluntary slavery and so different from anything bad that we might associate with the concept (such as human slavery or slavery to the devil)

[quote]There are two ways of belonging to another person and being subject to his authority. One is by ordinary service and the other is by slavery. And so we must use the terms "servant" and "slave". Ordinary service in Christian countries is when a man is employed to serve another for a certain length of time at a wage which is fixed or agreed upon. When a man is totally dependent on another for life, and must serve his master without expecting any wages or recompense, when he is treated just like a beast of the field over which the owner has the right of life and death, then it is slavery.
[b]70.[/b] [img]http://www.montfort.org.uk/Writings/dot_clear.gif[/img]Now there are three kinds of slavery; natural slavery, enforced slavery, and voluntary slavery. All creatures are slaves of God in the first sense, for "the earth and its fullness belong to the Lord". The devils and the damned are slaves in the second sense. The saints in heaven and the just on earth are slaves in the third sense. Voluntary slavery is the most perfect of all three states, for by it we give the greatest glory to God, who looks into the heart and wants it to be given to him. Is he not indeed called the God of the heart or of the loving will? For by this slavery we freely choose God and his service before all things, even if we were not by our very nature obliged to do so.
[b]71.[/b] [img]http://www.montfort.org.uk/Writings/dot_clear.gif[/img]There is a world of difference between a servant and a slave. 1) A servant does not give his employer all he is, all he has, and all he can acquire by himself or through others. A slave, however, gives himself to his master completely and exclusively with all he has and all he can acquire. 2) A servant demands wages for the services rendered to his employer. A slave, on the other hand, can expect nothing, no matter what skill, attention or energy he may have put into his work. 3) A servant can leave his employer whenever he pleases, or at least when the term of his service expires, whereas the slave has no such right. 4) An employer has no right of life and death over a servant. Were he to kill him as he would a beast of burden, he would commit murder. But the master of a slave has by law the right of life and death over him, so that he can sell him to anyone he chooses or - if you will pardon the comparison - kill him as he would kill his horse. 5) Finally, a servant is in his employer's service only for a time; a slave for always.
[b]72.[/b] [img]http://www.montfort.org.uk/Writings/dot_clear.gif[/img]No other human state involves belonging more completely to another than slavery. Among Christian peoples, nothing makes a person belong more completely to Jesus and his holy Mother than voluntary slavery. Our Lord himself gave us the example of this when out of love for us he "took the form of a slave". Our Lady gave us the same example when she called herself the handmaid or slave of the Lord. The Apostle considered it an honour to be called "slave of Christ". Several times in Holy Scripture, Christians are referred to as "slaves of Christ".
[img]http://www.montfort.org.uk/Writings/dot_clear.gif[/img]The Latin word "servus" at one time signified only a slave because servants as we know them did not exist. Masters were served either by slaves or by freedmen. The Catechism of the Council of Trent leaves no doubt about our being slaves of Jesus Christ, using the unequivocal term "Mancipia Christi", which plainly means: slaves of Christ.
[b]73.[/b] [img]http://www.montfort.org.uk/Writings/dot_clear.gif[/img]Granting this, I say that we must belong to Jesus and serve him not just as hired servants but as willing slaves who, moved by generous love, commit themselves to his service after the manner of slaves for the honour of belonging to him. Before we were baptised we were the slaves of the devil, but baptism made us the slaves of Jesus. Christians can only be slaves of the devil or slaves of Christ.
[b]74.[/b] [img]http://www.montfort.org.uk/Writings/dot_clear.gif[/img]What I say in an absolute sense of our Lord, I say in a relative sense of our Blessed Lady. Jesus, in choosing her as his inseparable associate in his life, glory and power in heaven and on earth, has given her by grace in his kingdom all the same rights and privileges that he possesses by nature. "All that belongs to God by nature belongs to Mary by grace", say the saints, and, according to them, just as Jesus and Mary have the same will and the same power, they have also the same subjects, servants and slaves.
[b]75.[/b] [img]http://www.montfort.org.uk/Writings/dot_clear.gif[/img]Following therefore the teaching of the saints and of many great men we can call ourselves, and become, the loving slaves of our Blessed Lady in order to become more perfect slaves of Jesus. Mary is the means our Lord chose to come to us and she is also the means we should choose to go to him, for she is not like other creatures who tend rather to lead us away from God than towards him, if we are over-attached to them. Mary's strongest inclination is to unite us to Jesus, her Son, and her Son's strongest wish is that we come to him through his Blessed Mother. He is pleased and honoured just as a king would be pleased and honoured if a citizen, wanting to become a better subject and slave of the king, made himself the slave of the queen. That is why the Fathers of the Church, and St. Bonaventure after them, assert that the Blessed Virgin is the way which leads to our Lord.
[b]76.[/b] [img]http://www.montfort.org.uk/Writings/dot_clear.gif[/img]Moreover, if, as I have said, the Blessed Virgin is the Queen and Sovereign of heaven and earth, does she not then have as many subjects and slaves as there are creatures? "All things, including Mary herself, are subject to the power of God. All things, God included, are subject to the Virgin's power", so we are told by St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine and St. Bonaventure. Is it not reasonable to find that among so many slaves there should be some slaves of love, who freely choose Mary as their Queen? Should men and demons have willing slaves, and Mary have none? A king makes it a point of honour that the queen, his consort, should have her own slaves, over whom she has right of life and death, for honour and power given to the queen is honour and power given to the king. Could we possibly believe that Jesus, the best of all sons, who shared his power with his Blessed Mother, would resent her having her own slaves? Has he less esteem and love for his Mother than Ahasuerus had for Esther, or Solomon for Bathsheba? Who could say or even think such a thing? [/quote]

If you have a devotion to Mary, I really recommend that book I learned a lot from it. It needs to be understood correctly though, for example when St Louis says "divine Mary", he does not mean that Our Lady is divine, but that God's work in her is divine. That point confuses some people but it's clarified by the editor. The book is fully accepted by the Church, and this was Pope John Paul II's favourite devotion

God bless!

[MarysLittleFlower]

[quote name='brianthephysicist' timestamp='1323663237' post='2349613']
Dude, I'm really sorry, but I read that and I still feel like I missed something. Like, I understood everything in the beginning about the idea of what slavery to Christ means and I completely agree, we should become slaves to Christ. But I'm missing the point where becoming a slave to Christ means becoming a slave to Mary or where becoming a slave to Mary means becoming a slave to Christ. I think it happens in line 74, but I'm still missing something. I think it has something to do with a trouble in my comprehension of the idea of her "Queenhood". [/quote]

there's the idea in the book that since Jesus is King and Mary is Queen, so we can't belong to Jesus without also being hers. (and definitely vise versa as well).

[quote]There are two quotes that really narrow down what I'm talking about: "All that belongs to God by nature belongs to Mary by grace" and "All things, including Mary herself, are subject to the power of God. All things, God included, are subject to the Virgin's power". I feel like the author of this is setting her on equal footing with God, but that doesn't make sense. Like, he specifies that she was given this (by grace) but how is she able to be at this position of power glory equal to God?

There's something really crucial that I'm missing.
[/quote]

He is not saying that she is equal to God.. I don't think. By nature, she's a human and He is God. Mary is not divine. But by grace, that is: by a gift from God, - she became Queen and Mother.. she is not equal to God, but she's second only to Him. All the other people, Angels and Archangels, all creation, etc, - are below her.. and God above, in the hierarchy. Because she's Queen and Mother by grace, we belong to her by this grace, hence: "all that belongs to God by nature belongs to Mary by grace". I hope that makes sense. She's not equal to Him because by nature she's human.

Regarding God being "subject to the Virgin's power", this again has nothing to do with who Mary is by nature.. it probably means that He listens to all her prayers and answers them. But this is because God Himself chose this and made it so. If He answers all her prayers, that is because He first chose to answer all her prayers and to put her in this position as His Mother. Jesus still has a human nature so Mary is still His Mother and her role did not diminish in Heaven, it increased.

All the power that Our Lady has, has been given to her by God. Even if it's the power of her prayers to Him.

This is a difficult book to understand, I personally really struggled with it at first, I think that maybe prayer helps more here than trying to figure it out logically... it makes sense logically but only later on. At first, it helps praying to the Holy Spirit for light.

God bless!

Edited December 12, 2011 by MarysLittleFlower

[Lil Red]

you just excerpted something that Nihil already posted.

[Nihil Obstat]

[MarysLittleFlower]

oops! sorry about that

[Theoketos]

Now, Im a goin ta-read the whole thread here in sec, but as one of St. Max once said,

Any one who refuses to have Mary as his mother, will not have have Christ as his brother.

Meaning that what goes for serving Christ goes for serving Mary as well. She is our mother as Christ is our brother. Christ gives us Mary on the Cross. Let us behold the woman!

[Theoketos]

AND it is very logical not emotional. Our Lady is queen of Wisdom.