How Many Of Us Want A Religion That Teaches Moral Limitations?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1323645117' post='2349347']

This is not my experience.
[/quote]
That's very good. It's been my experience with every single priest in my diocese save the FSSP priest. I'm assuming the SSPX priests also wouldn't be that way, and I would like the believe the Ukrainian Catholic priest is good as well.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1323645117' post='2349347']

This is not my experience.
[/quote]
Do the priests in your diocese withhold Communion from divorced and cohabitating couples, from pro-abortion politicians, from Masons, etc.? If so, which diocese do you live in? I want to be in a diocese that great.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1323642422' post='2349311']

.

it seems many of us become experts in our neighbors shortcomings, while overlooking ours or explaining them away.
[/quote]
Banged the nail right on the head. A guy says to priest. "I don't go to mass because there are too many hypocrites in the Church". Priest replies. "There's always room for one more." It's a LOL but very apt. The Churches responsibility is to teach what is right and wrong, but not to judge people and try to force them to comply. Recently some of our RCIA ladies had to have an interview for annulment issues. Such things worry me. God calls people to the Church, then we turn them away by being overly judgemental! Better to work out a solution so they can fit in with the rest of the sinners in the Church. My prayers were answered and the ladies are still with us.

[Papist]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1323645707' post='2349358']
Do the priests in your diocese withhold Communion from divorced and cohabitating couples, from pro-abortion politicians, from Masons, etc.? If so, which diocese do you live in? I want to be in a diocese that great.
[/quote]
I do not know of any. But, I will say I do a poor job trying to find out who they are. Reason is I think that is misguided zeal. There is so much beauty and splendor in the Catholic Church for me to embrace and participate in that I do not have the time to be an investigative reporter looking for deficiencies of its members and clergy.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1323646268' post='2349369']
I do not know of any. But, I will say I do a poor job trying to find out who they are. Reason is I think that is misguided zeal. There is so much beauty and splendor in the Catholic Church for me to embrace and participate in that I do not have the time to be an investigative reporter looking for deficiencies of its members and clergy.
[/quote]
Kind of burns me up when people like Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden talk about being "faithful Catholics", or the media describes them as devout, but by and large the response from many (of course not all) bishops is equivocal at best. When a bishop comes right out and says that a particular politician is not welcome to receive Communion in that diocese, it's newsworthy. I wish it were common enough that it wasn't even newsworthy anymore.
That said, it would be a bit of a stretch to call *any* Canadian politician pro-life. Conservatives have a majority, which is in a lot of ways carte-blanche to do whatever the heck they want, and they refuse even to mention the issue. It was brought up a grand total of once during the last election, and you should have seen the scramble to nuke the question...

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1323645707' post='2349358']
Do the priests in your diocese withhold Communion from divorced and cohabitating couples, from pro-abortion politicians, from Masons, etc.? If so, which diocese do you live in? I want to be in a diocese that great.
[/quote]
I could go with the serious anti church stuff like pro-abortion. But there are divorcees, homosexuals etc who are aware of the fact that they are at odds with Church teachings and are undergoing internal struggles as a result. IMO such people should always be made welcome to work toward a solution. That is if we believe that priests have the power to forgive sin. But as an EMHC I would leave all judgements regarding withholding Holy Eucharist to the priest.

[Papist]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1323646875' post='2349377']
Kind of burns me up when people like Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden talk about being "faithful Catholics", or the media describes them as devout, but by and large the response from many (of course not all) bishops is equivocal at best. When a bishop comes right out and says that a particular politician is not welcome to receive Communion in that diocese, it's newsworthy. I wish it were common enough that it wasn't even newsworthy anymore.
That said, it would be a bit of a stretch to call *any* Canadian politician pro-life. Conservatives have a majority, which is in a lot of ways carte-blanche to do whatever the heck they want, and they refuse even to mention the issue. It was brought up a grand total of once during the last election, and you should have seen the scramble to nuke the question...
[/quote]
Don't get me wrong, the Pelosis and Bidens of the world make me sick to my stomach. I think if Catholic politicians were truly faithful to the teaching of the Church they'd be surprised how much support they'd have.

[Aloysius]

a priest can only withhold communion in a case that is fully public and clearly unquestionably obstinate. priests ought to instruct people not to approach communion when they are in a state of mortal sin, but they should not withhold communion in most cases because one can never know who has recently been to confession and who has not. mostly, only public figures should ever be refused communion from the priest until they have publicly repented, whereas most ordinary Catholics are supposed to basically be held to an honor system.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Aloysius

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1323647765' post='2349399']
I could go with the serious anti church stuff like pro-abortion. But there are divorcees, homosexuals etc who are aware of the fact that they are at odds with Church teachings and are undergoing internal struggles as a result. IMO such people should always be made welcome to work toward a solution. That is if we believe that priests have the power to forgive sin. But as an EMHC I would leave all judgements regarding withholding Holy Eucharist to the priest.
[/quote]

Ideally they'd work it out with the priest in the confessional first.
But what I'm talking about, or at least trying to get at, is 'Catholics' who publicly live or work in a situation at odds with the Church's teachings.

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1323649070' post='2349414']
Don't get me wrong, the Pelosis and Bidens of the world make me sick to my stomach. I think if Catholic politicians were truly faithful to the teaching of the Church they'd be surprised how much support they'd have.
[/quote]
Hm... I dunno. I think they'd probably get hammered, but it would certainly be interesting to watch.

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1323649328' post='2349416']
a priest can only withhold communion in a case that is fully public and clearly unquestionably obstinate. priests ought to instruct people not to approach communion when they are in a state of mortal sin, but they should not withhold communion in most cases because one can never know who has recently been to confession and who has not. mostly, only public figures should ever be refused communion from the priest, whereas most ordinary Catholics are supposed to basically be held to an honor system.
[/quote]
Yes, I was trying to get at the public aspect, but I think I wasn't quite clear enough. I blame exam brain.

Edited December 12, 2011 by Nihil Obstat

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1323649358' post='2349417']

Ideally they'd work it out with the priest in the confessional first.
But what I'm talking about, or at least trying to get at, is 'Catholics' who publicly live or work in a situation at odds with the Church's teachings.

[/quote]
Okay, Good! There was a lady on another forum who had had a real rotter of a husband. For some reason although her family had tried to talk her into getting an annulment she decided she wanted to have a divorce. She told how she would sit at the back of the Church crying during Eucharist. I was so moved with compassion that I told her I wish I could be with her. I didn't know what I could do apart from cry with her. I then gave her an E-Eucharist. If I committed a grave sin it's one I wear with dignity.

[BigJon16]

I saw this thread, and was like:


Oh boy...

Edited December 12, 2011 by BigJon16

[BigJon16]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1323637280' post='2349257']
I almost have a hard time articulating this but how many of us WANT a religion that teaches moral limitations rather than a religion that is "tolerant", "accepting", and "respects" (approves of?) behavior like "living together" out of wedlock, promiscuity, homosexuality, and divorce and remarriage?

Without the moral limitations I almost feel like it's not even a religion. Especially if all that is taught are vague notions like "loving" everybody or "loving Jesus". I want to hear moral absolutes. I want to hear specific morality that I can actually apply to my life taught. I don't want to hear stuff like "Make Jesus the center of your life." or "Make Jesus the center of your marriage" because I don't really know what the hell that means -- it's just too vague and open to interpretation.

I want to hear stuff like "Practice celibacy until marriage." and "You need to make a real commitment to your wife -- and your future kids -- when you marry because a committed marriage will help your kids development and it will ultimately create balance moderation and happiness for both you and your wife." and "Homosexual behavior as well as other sexually perverted behavior does not lead to happiness and satisfaction in ones life. It is harmful and hurtful to people who practice it. A committed monogamous heterosexual relationship is the best."

It seems like the Christian religions are moving away from moral absolutes and trying to win everybody over. But it's not winning me over and I suspect that it doesn't win most people over. Do you guys agree?
[/quote]

[img]http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/11/11899/12184823.jpg[/img]

[southern california guy]

[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1323651287' post='2349453']

[img]http://memegenerator.net/cache/instances/400x/11/11899/12184823.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

You call me a troll for supporting the old Catholic church over some of the modern stuff?

Instead of calling me a name and attempting to make fun of me why don't you tell us your position?

[BigJon16]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1323651560' post='2349460']

You call me a troll for supporting the old Catholic church over some of the modern stuff?

Instead of calling me a name and attempting to make fun of me why don't you tell us your position?
[/quote]

You are right. That was a bit harsh. I apologize, if you would accept it.



My position:

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1323637617' post='2349263']

No. The Catholic Church has never moved away from moral absolutes. The Catholic Church has never taught moral limitations btw. Limitations are restrictive. What the Church teaches frees us.



Could you start some gardening threads now?
[/quote]
[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1323640695' post='2349294']

There have been at least a dozen attempts to teach you the legitimate position of the Catholic Church on annulments. You REFUSE to accept it.

As far as the rest of it, so what? You mean to say there are people who claim to be Catholic and don't live according to Her teachings? Do you honestly think that is new? I'll give you a clue. It's been happening for 2000 years or so.

Here's my advice. You are way too interested in how others are screwing up and sinning. Focus on yourself and quit worrying about everyone else. You want to live by moral absolutes? Become Catholic, go to confession and stop speaking with an unpleasant disposition about the homosexuals, priests, mexicans,divorce, etc.


Live your life and assent your will to the Church.
[/quote]


Another thing is that you seem to be judging the Church based on some personal experiences from parishes and such. But that doesn't speak for what Catholicism stands for entirely.

"Don't judge the Peter by the actions of the Judas"

Edited December 12, 2011 by BigJon16

[Lil Red]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1323651560' post='2349460']

You call me a troll for supporting the old Catholic church over some of the modern stuff?

Instead of calling me a name and attempting to make fun of me why don't you tell us your position?
[/quote]

we've tried. you don't listen.