Freedom Of/from Religion

[DMcB]

Weren't we just going on about this very thing :


[url="http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/12/13/keep-christ-in-christmas-sign-stirs-controversy-in-south-jersey-town/"][b][i]PITMAN, N.J. (CBS) –[/i] Some residents of a South Jersey town are calling [/b][/url]
[url="http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/12/13/keep-christ-in-christmas-sign-stirs-controversy-in-south-jersey-town/"][b]a Knights of Columbus banner that hangs over Broadway in Pitman, [/b][/url]
[url="http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/12/13/keep-christ-in-christmas-sign-stirs-controversy-in-south-jersey-town/"][b]a sign of the season.[/b][/url]

[b][url="http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/12/13/keep-christ-in-christmas-sign-stirs-controversy-in-south-jersey-town/"]It reads “Keep Christ in[/url] [/b][b][url="http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/12/13/keep-christ-in-christmas-sign-stirs-controversy-in-south-jersey-town/"]Christmas[/url][/b][url="http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/12/13/keep-christ-in-christmas-sign-stirs-controversy-in-south-jersey-town/"][b].”[/b][/url]

Edited December 14, 2011 by DMcB

[dominicansoul]

In the past this was not a problem at all, but as our nation becomes more and more diverse, it seems like we're going to be hearing more complaints about Christian symbols in the public square.......

[add]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1323901061' post='2351351']
In the past this was not a problem at all, but as our nation becomes more and more diverse, it seems like we're going to be hearing more complaints about Christian symbols in the public square.......
[/quote]
"diversity" just another word for uncivilized

[DMcB]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1323901061' post='2351351']
In the past this was not a problem at all, but as our nation becomes more and more diverse, it seems like we're going to be hearing more complaints about Christian symbols in the public square.......
[/quote]

Our nation has always been diverse, but in the past there was more of an expectation to "become American." Namely, it was understood that folks left their homelands to "become American." And for the most part, this maintained a society that was pretty similar across the nation; and ultimately, a truly American culture. Not to mention, the number of immigrants was so much fewer than what we've experienced in the last 40 years. So, it is now apparent that more and more the expectation to "become American" is fading and it is now far more fashionable to allow late comers to change the society in which they've moved into. Pat Buchanan gave an amesome interview on this topic while on Kresta's show. Can't remember the date but it was probably 3 weeks ago.

Mark Levin has a great book titled, "Men In Black: How The Supreme Court is Destroying America." The book explores many of these issues related to religion in America.

Edited December 15, 2011 by DMcB

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='add' timestamp='1323914712' post='2351452']
"diversity" just another word for uncivilized
[/quote]

what?

[quote name='DMcB' timestamp='1323918552' post='2351483']

Our nation has always been diverse, but in the past there was more of an expectation to "become American." Namely, it was understood that folks left their homelands to "become American." And for the most part, this maintained a society that was pretty similar across the nation; and ultimately, a truly American culture. Not to mention, the number of immigrants was so much fewer than what we've experienced in the last 40 years. So, it is now apparent that more and more the expectation to "become American" is fading and it is now far more fashionable to allow late comers to change the society in which they've moved into. Pat Buchanan gave an amesome interview on this topic while on Kresta's show. Can't remember the date but it was probably 3 weeks ago.

Mark Levin has a great book titled, "Men In Black: How The Supreme Court is Destroying America." The book explores many of these issues related to religion in America.
[/quote]

im not sure how this thread turned into "why immigrants are ruining america" but if it could turn around that would be fine with me.

[DMcB]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1323945705' post='2351568']
im not sure how this thread turned into "why immigrants are ruining america" but if it could turn around that would be fine with me.
[/quote]

Now, now. That is not at all what I wrote. It is not the immigrant that I hold accountable in this case, but rather the lack of an expectation by so many Americans for immigrants to fully assimilate that I find troubling. And this exists to the point that our governments (local, state, and federal) are often more than willing to accommodate late comers at the expense of the established culture; as opposed to allowing the culture to morph (for better or worse) according to the habits of the people. This seems to fit perfectly into a conversation about government policies ending well establish practices that are very likely supported by many of a town's people.

In the main, I'm not willing to carry on as if policies/legislation take place in a vacuum and somehow do not have consequences (unintended or otherwise). I would suggest exploring the results of social policies in Europe; specifically, England, Germany, and France. Those folks have dug themselves a heck of a hole.

Edited December 15, 2011 by DMcB

[dominicansoul]

I meant a diversity in cultures, beliefs and religions... I wasn't trying to start an argument over race or the influence of immigrants in America. I was just simply stating, there seems to be more non-believers these days, and more and more non-Christian religions, and so, we will continue to see more protests against public symbols of Christianity...


As far as immigrants assimilating in America, no one ever expected to change their religion coming to America. In fact, they were coming to America so they could be free to worship as they pleased....

[DMcB]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1323970619' post='2351707']
I meant a diversity in cultures, beliefs and religions... I wasn't trying to start an argument over race or the influence of immigrants in America. I was just simply stating, there seems to be more non-believers these days, and more and more non-Christian religions, and so, we will continue to see more protests against public symbols of Christianity...[/quote]
I think your post came across in this way. At least, that's how I interpreted it. At the same time, I thought I'd add my two cents.


[quote]As far as immigrants assimilating in America, no one ever expected to change their religion coming to America. In fact, they were coming to America so they could be free to worship as they pleased....
[/quote]
Agreed. At the same time, well established traditions were far more respected - and for lots of reasons. Obviously, as to the original post, it could be argued that these issues have arisen for many reasons...my points certainly are not the be all and end all of this conversation.

[add]

[b] Bah humbug![/b]

[b] Congressmen not allowed to wish constituents 'Merry Christmas' in mail[/b]

I’d say prohibiting anyone from wishing “Merry Christmas” counts as interfering with the free exercise of religion. isn't it odd that it is perfectly alright to promote Halloween, witches, monsters aznd goblins but it is illegal, illegal to wish merry Christmas (if your a US congressmen

personally i feel it should be the other way
happy holidays
[color=#000000][/color]

[DMcB]

add, I understand the frustration. But to tell you the truth, I wish the franking commission would take out "holiday" cards entirely - and if I had a full understanding of what all can be franked, I bet I'd have A LONG LIST of items to remove. As I see it, the tax payer should not get stuck paying for one more aspect of campaign activity; which is all that sending a "holiday greeting card" amounts to. It's bad enough that the incumbant has so many tax payer funded resources toward reelection; sending constituents greetings cards is an unnecessary expenditure for government, and should be paid for by the campaign fund.

[Byzantine]

Speaking of free exercise, what are your thoughts on this?

[url="http://byzteenview.blogspot.com/2011/12/my-first-amendment-rights.html"]http://byzteenview.b...ent-rights.html[/url]

[quote][font=Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif][size=3]Congress is attempting to restrict faithful Catholics from exercising their faith by not paying for these things.[/size][/font]

[font=Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif][size=3]So, I believe that now it is [/size][/font][size=6][font=georgia,serif][u]MY[/u] [/font][/size][font=Arial, Tahoma, Helvetica, FreeSans, sans-serif][size=3]First Amendment rights being attacked[/size][/font][/quote]

Edited December 18, 2011 by Byzantine

[add]

[quote name='DMcB' timestamp='1324242464' post='2353367']
add, I understand the frustration. But to tell you the truth, I wish the franking commission would take out "holiday" cards entirely - and if I had a full understanding of what all can be franked, I bet I'd have A LONG LIST of items to remove. As I see it, the tax payer should not get stuck paying for one more aspect of campaign activity; which is all that sending a "holiday greeting card" amounts to. It's bad enough that the incumbant has so many tax payer funded resources toward reelection; sending constituents greetings cards is an unnecessary expenditure for government, and should be paid for by the campaign fund.
[/quote]
i agree, however singling out religion is the part that is disturbing

[Socrates]

[quote name='DMcB' timestamp='1323900784' post='2351350']
Weren't we just going on about this very thing :


[url="http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/12/13/keep-christ-in-christmas-sign-stirs-controversy-in-south-jersey-town/"][b][i]PITMAN, N.J. (CBS) –[/i] Some residents of a South Jersey town are calling [/b][/url]
[url="http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/12/13/keep-christ-in-christmas-sign-stirs-controversy-in-south-jersey-town/"][b]a Knights of Columbus banner that hangs over Broadway in Pitman, [/b][/url]
[url="http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/12/13/keep-christ-in-christmas-sign-stirs-controversy-in-south-jersey-town/"][b]a sign of the season.[/b][/url]

[b][url="http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/12/13/keep-christ-in-christmas-sign-stirs-controversy-in-south-jersey-town/"]It reads “Keep Christ in[/url] [/b][b][url="http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/12/13/keep-christ-in-christmas-sign-stirs-controversy-in-south-jersey-town/"]Christmas[/url][/b][url="http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/12/13/keep-christ-in-christmas-sign-stirs-controversy-in-south-jersey-town/"][b].”[/b][/url]
[/quote]
Indeed.

A constitutional amendment preventing Congress from legally establishing a tax-funded national church, in the looking-glass land of modern liberalism, has somehow morphed into meaning that no mention of Christ can be seen from any public road.

Plenty of churches, and their attendant religious signs and displays, can be clearly seen from public roads. In the town I used to live in, our parish church was located directly on mainstreet, where its creche displays and such could be clearly seen by passing motorists (especially as it is in front of a stop sign).

Must these churches all be forcibly raized and relocated by court order, lest they offend the ever-sensitive eyes of atheists?
(Ok, guess I should shut up lest I start giving the ACLU types ideas)

[Socrates]

[quote name='DMcB' timestamp='1324242464' post='2353367']
add, I understand the frustration. But to tell you the truth, I wish the franking commission would take out "holiday" cards entirely - and if I had a full understanding of what all can be franked, I bet I'd have A LONG LIST of items to remove. As I see it, the tax payer should not get stuck paying for one more aspect of campaign activity; which is all that sending a "holiday greeting card" amounts to. It's bad enough that the incumbant has so many tax payer funded resources toward reelection; sending constituents greetings cards is an unnecessary expenditure for government, and should be paid for by the campaign fund.
[/quote]
The expenditure on "holiday" cards and displays makes up only a negligible part of government spending.
While I'm definitely for financial responsibility, I think there are many much bigger "secular" wastes of taxpayer money that should be targeted before we start going after creche displays and such which only cost at most a few hundred bucks spread out across many years.
With regards to mainstreet Christmas decorations, such decisions should be made by the local city councils and such; there's no need to get the courts involved at all.

The "freedom from religion" nonsense is entirely bogus.

[Socrates]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1323970619' post='2351707']
I meant a diversity in cultures, beliefs and religions... I wasn't trying to start an argument over race or the influence of immigrants in America. I was just simply stating, there seems to be more non-believers these days, and more and more non-Christian religions, and so, we will continue to see more protests against public symbols of Christianity...


As far as immigrants assimilating in America, no one ever expected to change their religion coming to America. In fact, they were coming to America so they could be free to worship as they pleased....
[/quote]
I have problems with unrestricted immigration, but to be fair, it seems that most of these lawsuits against creche sets and whatnot are not coming from non-Christian immigrants, but from white atheist apostates.