Ask Sister Marie

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='savvy' timestamp='1324950586' post='2357847']
Yes, it does. Thank You. Just out of curiosity, does your community get a lot of young vocations.
[/quote]

[quote name='MargaretTeresa' timestamp='1324950937' post='2357848']
Sister Marie,
What do you think is probably the hardest part of the application and discernment process?
[/quote]

If it's alright, I'm going to meld these two questions together... We have a low yet steady flow of younger women entering. We don't have the large classes of ten or twenty young women entering because it seems to me, not as a formator but as a younger sister (who went through the application process somewhat recently!), that there are two approaches to formation and entering religious life as far as communities are concerned. One is, let women willing to enter enter and see what happens, many may leave but at least they tried... The other approach is to make sure that the women who want to enter are sure, mature, and grounded and then allow them to enter and work with them to grow as religious. They both have their pros and cons but I do think the more cautious approach to allowing young women to enter is prudent (not more prudent or better) for both the young woman and the community.

It is hard for communities to have a rotating door of young women and so it helps to make sure that both the community and the young woman are as sure as they can be with God's grace about their fit at that particular moment. Women entering also know that the community cares for them as an individual and not as a number in a class. Our sisters work very closely with the women discerning so that the women can really search their hearts and their vocation before even receiving an application. Sometimes I hear a lot of applications given after the first time a young woman visits a community - I am certainly not disagreeing with their particular practice, to each her own... but I am glad that I was cared for as an individual joining a community. The sisters knew my history and my concerns, my gifts and my struggles before I ever walked through the door as a postulant - and knowing my weaknesses they still accepted me!

That being said, I think the hardest part of the application and discernment process is not getting caught up in the hype. It is easy to get taken with a lot of externals or even of the idea of being a sister instead of being taken by love and surrender and a desire to really give all. Giving all means that I know my great weakness, my gifts, my personality which is liked by some and disliked by others, my warts, my goodness, my history, my family, my scars, and my victories and giving them all to God in community - some will be used for good, some will be transformed, some will be lost, and some will remain little crosses in the journey to holiness. Becoming a sister changes absolutely nothing about a woman - the habit, the vows, the life - you are still who you are... so... when you begin the journey of discernment you must know who you are and stay true to that while being willing to be formed as that unique individual into a religious woman.

It is an amazing journey and you discover much good about yourself and God in the process.

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1324948450' post='2357834']
Sister Marie,

At what point in your formation or life as a Sister do you and others begin to feel like Jesus is your Spouse, as close as you could be with a man in marriage? Does it have to do with formation or growth in spirituality?

Thank you.
[/quote]

Well, you have me stumped Joyful! I think, first, that all Christians are called to be closer to Jesus than they are with any other person in their life. He is always the first in the list of our loves and no one needs to be a sister to have Him that close. Religious life is a deepening of our baptismal consecration and the public profession vows us to live in closer imitation of the poor, chaste, and obedient Christ. All of us are called from our baptism to follow Him and in religious life we follow Him more closely through the living of chastity, poverty, and obedience in a religious congregation.

I think the best way I can answer your question is to describe my relationship with Jesus. These are my thoughts and feelings only - not any intellectual or authoritative viewpoint. Just to clarify, I really do not relate to any of the bride of Christ imagery. I do relate to the spousal imagery. I know it seems like I'm splitting hairs, but I see the "bride of Christ" imagery to be more focused on a romantic and external reality. It usually accompanies the wearing of a bridal gown and it seems almost like a substitute for or symbolic mirror of a marriage. I do not believe that religious life is a mirror image of marriage where there is a substitute in each for another aspect of the other. I do believe they compliment one another by revealing the Kingdom of God and the reality of Heaven in different ways.

I thought very much when I was preparing for profession that when Father put that ring on my finger and said those words, "Sister, receive this ring for you are betrothed to the eternal king" I would feel like Jesus was my Spouse. I felt joy, peace, and love... but it did not change my relationship with Him. It confirmed something that was already in my heart - placed there by God from the beginning - before I knew Him and before I knew myself and before I knew it was there. In the solitude of my heart there is a place that I have reserved for Him and it is the place where we meet along with all the other [i]things [/i]of my life.

The times when I do feel the most intimacy with Him are when I see Him active in my life... when I rely most upon Him for my strength, when I tell Him my troubles, my insecurities, when I am sharing with Him the pain of the people I serve, when I am sharing with Him the joy of my life within community. I feel it when I make a difficult decision with Him, when I trust that place that He created in me to be the driving force of my life. I feel it in the early morning when I'm in the silence of the Chapel with Him. I feel it when I look into the eyes of the children I teach and I feel such love for them. I feel it when I am helping a sister. I feel it when I am experiencing pain and I feel it when I am experiencing joy because I share it all with Him. Sometimes of course, I fail in that. But He is always faithful.

The relationship I have with Him is so deep because of my vocation... for others I am sure it is just as deep because of their own vocation whether it be marriage or the single life. So, I didn't really answer your question but maybe some others may want to share their own feelings about this...

[the171]

Sister,

Do communities provide mental health care? If not, what do they (the applicant and the community) do?

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1324954298' post='2357886']
If it's alright, I'm going to meld these two questions together... We have a low yet steady flow of younger women entering. We don't have the large classes of ten or twenty young women entering because it seems to me, not as a formator but as a younger sister (who went through the application process somewhat recently!), that there are two approaches to formation and entering religious life as far as communities are concerned. One is, let women willing to enter enter and see what happens, many may leave but at least they tried... The other approach is to make sure that the women who want to enter are sure, mature, and grounded and then allow them to enter and work with them to grow as religious. They both have their pros and cons but I do think the more cautious approach to allowing young women to enter is prudent (not more prudent or better) for both the young woman and the community.

It is hard for communities to have a rotating door of young women and so it helps to make sure that both the community and the young woman are as sure as they can be with God's grace about their fit at that particular moment. Women entering also know that the community cares for them as an individual and not as a number in a class. Our sisters work very closely with the women discerning so that the women can really search their hearts and their vocation before even receiving an application. Sometimes I hear a lot of applications given after the first time a young woman visits a community - I am certainly not disagreeing with their particular practice, to each her own... but I am glad that I was cared for as an individual joining a community. The sisters knew my history and my concerns, my gifts and my struggles before I ever walked through the door as a postulant - and knowing my weaknesses they still accepted me!

That being said, I think the hardest part of the application and discernment process is not getting caught up in the hype. It is easy to get taken with a lot of externals or even of the idea of being a sister instead of being taken by love and surrender and a desire to really give all. Giving all means that I know my great weakness, my gifts, my personality which is liked by some and disliked by others, my warts, my goodness, my history, my family, my scars, and my victories and giving them all to God in community - some will be used for good, some will be transformed, some will be lost, and some will remain little crosses in the journey to holiness. Becoming a sister changes absolutely nothing about a woman - the habit, the vows, the life - you are still who you are... so... when you begin the journey of discernment you must know who you are and stay true to that while being willing to be formed as that unique individual into a religious woman.

It is an amazing journey and you discover much good about yourself and God in the process.
[/quote]

Wonderful response Sister! I too wince when I hear of women coming back from their first, general (often big group) visit with application forms and am not sure who much they could [i]truely[/i] have got into the life during that time. Also, when I hear of a community that always seems to have lots of very young girls (predominantly the contemplative communities as thats where I am called myself) I then have a look and see how many they seem to have in their mid-20s making their solemn vows. Its not an exact science, but very often it seems that they keep very few of their young girls.

I also agree very much about externals. Years ago now, when I was soon to get engaged, a dear friend told me to look at the man I loved and imagine him old, penniless, maimed, demented - and [i]then[/i] decide if I could really promise to love him 'til death do us part'. I now try to apply similar to a community - if that community moved into a council flat, if the sisters I felt most natural attraction to died or left, if they swapped their habit for trousersuits, etc, would that still be the community I wanted to be part of.

Thank you for your comments Sister, Im finding this thread very interesting.

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1324962593' post='2358012']
Sister,

Do communities provide mental health care? If not, what do they (the applicant and the community) do?
[/quote]

I think this depends more upon the particular community and what kind of mental health care we are talking about. If a sister needs help getting through some particular issue, from my experience in my community, that is not a problem and it is certainly provided for. At the same time a young woman entering a community probably wouldn't come saying, "I have multiple personality disorder and I need to see someone and be monitored constantly." They would not be fit for religious life. However, if something happened before her entrance or if she was trying to resolve some issues in her life, it would not be out of the question for therapy to continue or begin in community.

I really don't know what other communities do regarding mental health and I'm sure some of it depends upon money and health insurance as well as the viewpoints of those communities. There are some communities who still have a more negative or cautious approach to mental health care and I am not sure what they would do to care for a sister with a problem. I think it is a valid question to ask of a community after discernment with them has become serious. Whether you need those services or not, it would tell you a lot about the type of care and charity you would be given with any difficulty or illness. Of course, I am not saying to join the community with the best health care plan, haha... but awareness of your relationship with the community is a good thing to have.

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1324881256' post='2357605']
Just make sure to read the Discernment of Spirits book as well ... both are very linked. And you'll miss a lot if you don't have part one (or as he would say, have a good understanding of first week rules).

If you can afford getting the CDs, Go ahead and do so. It was worth every penny and the book and CDs go together.
[/quote]

CDs?? Which ones? Please PM me the info cause someone was generous enough to give me a B&N card for Christmas that I can totally use.

Sorry Sr. Marie...

Edited December 27, 2011 by HopefulBride

[andibc]

[quote]wince when I hear of women coming back from their first, general (often big group) visit with application forms and am not sure who much they could [i]truely[/i] have got into the life during that time.[/quote]
It's a lack of information that has created this idea that any girl who asks for an application will be given one or that the community cannot be known after a weekend or a week. I believe you are referring to the growing Dominican teaching orders and since we've had groups of girls go to both the Nashville and Ann Arbor retreats over the years I can assure you that asking alone does not get you papers. I've seen girls who were very devout, both young and college age who asked and were told that they weren't called to that order. These were girls who we all thought would surely come back with applications, but they were told "no". We've had girls who had planned for years to join one or the other order come back not having asked for papers because they were nudged by the Holy Spirit, during adoration, that the community was not for them. We can assume that the vocation directors are praying, that they are inspired and that Our Lord also leads the girls while they are on the retreats. To imply that the girls are just a number is unfair. We have 2 from our city who are with the Nashville Dominicans and 3 with the Ann Arbor sisters. I belong to a group who supports vocations to religious life and the priesthood and have known the "now sisters" for many years. They all spoke warmly about their communications with the vocation director the year before they entered and it seemed quite regular, involving guidance in spiritual formation and general preparation. Their mothers told me they were warmly received and that they felt their daughters were dearly loved and known from the start. These girls have all stayed and many have already made final professions. When I look at the smaller religious orders I see the same degree of attrition from the time of postulancy to final profession. I suspect the percentage that leaves is probably very similar with the large and small groups if it were to be calculated.

[Sarah147]

Sister Marie,

Thank you for your answers!!

Can a novice in a semi-contemplative order still be friends with an outside friend, by way of chatting in snail mail letters maybe once or twice a year, or is she supposed to be more detached and not allowed to talk much about what's going on in the friends life and comment?

Edited December 27, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='andibc' timestamp='1325011963' post='2358163']
It's a lack of information that has created this idea that any girl who asks for an application will be given one or that the community cannot be known after a weekend or a week.[/quote]

Neither I nor Faith suggested that ANY girl who asks gets an application. I think we are just reflecting on the long art of discernment and the seeming haste of those quick applications.

[quote name='andibc' timestamp='1325011963' post='2358163']
I believe you are referring to the growing Dominican teaching orders and since we've had groups of girls go to both the Nashville and Ann Arbor retreats over the years I can assure you that asking alone does not get you papers.[/quote]

Actually, I referred to no one and I do take offense to be accused of such. I would never speak negatively about any community. To each her own. There are a great number of perspectives and journeys in our church and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Again, nothing was said about just asking and receiving. The issue was with timing and discernment and it most certainly did not reflect on any particular community.

[quote name='andibc' timestamp='1325011963' post='2358163']
I've seen girls who were very devout, both young and college age who asked and were told that they weren't called to that order. These were girls who we all thought would surely come back with applications, but they were told "no". We've had girls who had planned for years to join one or the other order come back not having asked for papers because they were nudged by the Holy Spirit, during adoration, that the community was not for them. We can assume that the vocation directors are praying, that they are inspired and that Our Lord also leads the girls while they are on the retreats. To imply that the girls are just a number is unfair. We have 2 from our city who are with the Nashville Dominicans and 3 with the Ann Arbor sisters. I belong to a group who supports vocations to religious life and the priesthood and have known the "now sisters" for many years. They all spoke warmly about their communications with the vocation director the year before they entered and it seemed quite regular, involving guidance in spiritual formation and general preparation. Their mothers told me they were warmly received and that they felt their daughters were dearly loved and known from the start. These girls have all stayed and many have already made final professions. [/quote]

Again, I am happy that your experience and the experience of those young women was so wonderful. I'm not surprised either because I was not speaking about any community in particular so you are not telling me anything new when you say that they were loved and cared for because I am sure that they were! I'm sure their vocation directresses were prayerful and kind women and that they did everything they could to aid in their discernment. I'm also very happy for their perseverence and happiness in religious life. It's a great life! My only point earlier was that if you go on a retreat with 50 other girls there is no way that one vocation directress with no other communication can possibly know you that well, nor you her. However, God can certainly work in many situations and human processes.

[quote name='andibc' timestamp='1325011963' post='2358163']
When I look at the smaller religious orders I see the same degree of attrition from the time of postulancy to final profession. I suspect the percentage that leaves is probably very similar with the large and small groups if it were to be calculated.
[/quote]

I'm actually in a very large congregation. My only point from the very beginning iwas that POSSIBLY in some communities more formative work is done before entrance whereas in others it is done after entrance so that the separation of those called to that life and those not called occurs more before entrance rather than in the postulancy. I bet they would have the same degree of attrition if you included the numbers in pre-entrance programs as well as postulancy.

I apologize to anyone who was offended by my post. I only speak from my experience and I am not an authority on anything and I have never claimed to be such either. Most of you don't even know what community I am from because I'm not here to promote vocations to my community or to any other. I'm just happy to be able to share with you some of my own experiences and why I love religious life. I have no ulterior motive to work against the communities above or to work for the gain of my own. I'm passionate about religious life and I admire all of you for your willing hearts.

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1325016749' post='2358179']
Sister Marie,

Thank you for your answers!!

Can a novice in a semi-contemplative order still be friends with an outside friend, by way of chatting in snail mail letters maybe once or twice a year, or is she supposed to be more detached and not allowed to talk much about what's going on in the friends life and comment?
[/quote]

Dear Joyful,

I have no clue! For an apostolic sister it wouldn't seem to be a problem and in formation communication is always tighter... but for a semi-contemplative... no clue!

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1325021206' post='2358213'] I'm just happy to be able to share with you some of my own experiences and why I love religious life. I have no ulterior motive to work against the communities above or to work for the gain of my own. I'm passionate about religious life and I admire all of you for your willing hearts.[/quote]

and we thank you for your willingness to share, and for any amount of time that you have to answer questions. God bless.

[Sarah147]

Sister Marie,

You are a true blessing to phatmass! Thank you soooo much.

The handout the RSM sent me says a sign of RL calling is: "Desire to love expansively rather than feeling fully satisfied in an intimate relationship with one person." But, it seems in marriage, you love expansively to your children. Any help on understanding this and discerning between religious life and marriage?


Thank you very much.

[Sister Marie]

Joyful,

I think it would be great if someone who is married with children chimes in on this one because I can only give the perspective of love as a religious... I'm not a mother so I don't think I can accurately describe the love of a mother for her child or a woman for her husband. As a sister though my love is expansive in the sense that it is non-exclusive. My love must be able to hold all in my heart with the same amount of fervor and zeal. I see this most often when I'm with the children I teach. While they are my charges, while I am responsible for them, I give them all of myself and they have all my love. I hold them in prayer and I do my best to bring them closer to God. When I receive new students I do the same for them and I continue to bring more and more of God's children into my heart in the same way as all the others. My life is being poured out and sacrificed for each of them over and over again.

I would this relates to discernment in asking the question, to whom do you belong? Everyone belongs to God - married, single, religious... are you willing to belong, indiscriminately to God's people? or are you willing to belong to one person and one family primarily?

Anyone else...?

[Sarah147]

I love both -- community of religious life and husband/family. Hopefully the vocation directors can ask the right questions and help me discern...

And yeah, it would help if married people could comment....

Thank you for your help.

Edited December 28, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1325016749' post='2358179']
Sister Marie,

Thank you for your answers!!

Can a novice in a semi-contemplative order still be friends with an outside friend, by way of chatting in snail mail letters maybe once or twice a year, or is she supposed to be more detached and not allowed to talk much about what's going on in the friends life and comment?
[/quote]

May I add to Sr Maries reply, but from a fully contemplative perspective, please?

Friendships had to change. For sometime I did not want them to but gradually realised I was trying to live half my life 'outside' as my letters were gossipy and telling my friends how desperately I missed them. During my Clothing retreat I chose to not miss them anymore. My letters changed slightly ( I started signing off 'I love you' not 'I miss you' etc) but the friendships have now grown deeper and I am godmother to one of my friends sons.

I will be allowed to write 3 times a year to me 'bestest' friends - 3 of them, - once a year to the others, and a general Christmas newsletter to everyone.