Pope Seeks End To Death Penalty

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1323306474' post='2346978']


What a bunch of outdated nonsense Trent doesn't matter anymore, not really. That kind of dogmatic thinking should be given no praise or honor, just mockery and rejection. Thankfully we have developed ourselves away from the Holy Ghost's stupid, outdated, barbaric, rightwing nonsense that some how the State has a right to enforce justice on the wicked.
[/quote]
TOTALLY!!!!


The pope musta missed THAT day in pope school!!!!

I bet there's egg on his face after reading THAT post!!!!

[dominicansoul]

The Holy Spirit must have stopped inspiring the Church after the Council of Trent...

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1323307778' post='2347010']

Which would include the Church Fathers at Trent. Good thing for us we know better and have better developed morals than they.
[/quote]

I'm so glad that neither the Church nor society have developed or grown at all since the Council of Trent. Obvz they had supermax prisons back then.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1323306777' post='2346985']
I always find it interesting that those who are most opposed to the government handling anything for them are enthused for that same inept, corrupt, and non-Christian government decide who deserves to die, and to carry it out in our name.
[/quote]

well, that is typically due to them being gigantic hypocrites, and stunning examples of the Dunning Kruger effect in action.

[quote name='GeorgiiMichael' timestamp='1323308159' post='2347018']
That's not what's being said at all. I hope you realize this and are just trolling.
[/quote]

that would imply a level of self awareness that you are simply delusional to be expecting.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1323299713' post='2346871']

I'm not saying that; nor am I implying that your moral intuitions are wrong.

All I'm saying is that people (including innocents) are harmed or killed every year by prison inmates. I'm also saying that people such as prison guards know exactly how dangerous it is to be in such an occupation.

My argument isn't about whether or not the death penalty is right. My argument is simply that the idea that we can currently keep people safe by keeping other people behind bars is flawed. I'll admit that the [i]general public [/i](by this I mean the majority of the public) can be kept safe from the [i]worst[/i] of the offenders, but there still exists a real danger. "Bricks and bars" just aren't enough.


So - no schooling from me. Sorry.
[/quote]
I'm not an expert on the subject by any means. I would support an optimal solution that affirms the dignity of human beings. This would have to be based on verifiable social science and not private feelings. In spite of past threads about this I've yet to see any substantial evidence that killing convicts is a worthwhile activity. Assuming you are correct that incarcerating people is a burden, perhaps there are better solutions to be explored than a euthanasia line.

[Sarah147]

I agree with my SD on this. They should remain in prison for the chance of grace converting their souls. Killing people takes away the chance of grace working on their souls in the amount of time that person may have needed.

Another thing that needs to be considered... In an article, I read about how a lot of behavioral and criminal behavior can be due to health problems, like wild sugar imbalances/diabetes that was undetected before. After treatment there was a huge change in the people in the article.

Edited December 8, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1323364083' post='2347376']
I agree with my SD on this. They should remain in prison for the chance of grace converting their souls. Killing people takes away the chance of grace working on their souls in the amount of time that person may have needed.

[/quote]
Really? I would think someone announcing what day you are going to die would be a wonderfully motivating force to re-examine your life.

[KnightofChrist]

Devil's Advocate Statement to show the true hypocrisy of this thread.

[i]As someone who has actually witnessed Religious Liberty, or any other Vatican II teaching you like, I can truthfully say that there was nothing Christian or biblical about it.[/i]

Do you think that will get me a crazy dope post, yo?! Prolly not. The truths of Trent 'can' be rejected but all blankly blank would break lose if someone were to deny, question or mock any truth or truths taught by Vatican II.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1323385077' post='2347548']
Devil's Advocate Statement to show the true hypocrisy of this thread.

[i]As someone who has actually witnessed Religious Liberty, or any other Vatican II teaching you like, I can truthfully say that there was nothing Christian or biblical about it.[/i]

Do you think that will get me a crazy dope post, yo?! Prolly not. The truths of Trent 'can' be rejected but all blankly blank would break lose if someone were to deny, question or mock any truth or truths taught by Vatican II.
[/quote]


i don't see anyone mocking or denying the truths of trent in this thread. What I do see is that people do have a more deeper understanding of Councils, and that the Church doesn't remain static, but grows to develop and make more clear what has been handed down to us through the ages...

...things tend to break lose when people mock Vatican II, because it is a council of the Holy Catholic Church. I don't think anyone should mock it, but try to come to terms with what was given to us there, in the proper understanding... not with confusion, or with misinterpretation... feel free to question it, but mocking it should be out of the question...

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1323386669' post='2347560']
...things tend to break lose when people mock Vatican II, because it is a council of the Holy Catholic Church. I don't think anyone should mock it, but try to come to terms with what was given to us there, in the proper understanding... not with confusion, or with misinterpretation... feel free to question it, but mocking it should be out of the question...
[/quote]
I disagree entirely.
A little mocking never hurt anyone.

A selection of limericks written by bishops and cardinals in attendance at VII (apparently it could get extremely boring):


The Limerick’s inferior they say
To the poetry of Shelley or Gray.
But the Bishop of “X,”
Without wishing to vex,
Composes at least one a day.



Some theologians with keen exposition
Seem intent on destroying Tradition;
On theology’s new wave
They ride very brave
But they really lack true erudition.



We are two thousand Patres in session
Who feel a great weight of oppression
What with Cardinals talking
And lesser lights squawking,
Thank goodness the bar’s so refreshin’.



From Texas came young Bishop Leven
Where the shooters are six and not seven;
He shot from the hip
With plenty of zip
And sent many bishops to heaven.





Now there is Rahner, Congar and Kung
Whose praises are everywhere sung
But one fine domani
Ottaviani
Will have the three of them hung.

[dominicansoul]

i gave you props, cos I couldn't resist...that's a good one!

[sixpence]

Hi KofC

[Tony]

when the Holy Father speaks on the death penalty the whole "Obedience to the pope" thing goes out the window.. interesting..

Could be be possibly trying to protect the ones wrongfully imprisoned and are on death row ? and even if he knows what the Council of Trent says (Which Im sure he does) maybe he thinks the risk of the above happening outweighs execuction? that's one to ponder.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1323139348' post='2345289']
Good. I think it's about time we ended the death penalty[b] in first-world nations[/b].
[/quote]



[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1323291179' post='2346754']
In terms of subjective values I think that killing people is disgraceful, no matter how defective the victim. Rehabilitation and containment are interesting. As a practical and sociological question I suspect that institutionalized people slaying is not so healthy for a society.
[/quote]
there's interesting studies coming from European countries about rehabilitation. can't find them now though.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1323298131' post='2346857']
If you're implying that people involved in criminal justice necessarily support your viewpoint I call [b]boolsheet[/b]. Also, the fact that I don't have direct experience with warfare, wife-beating, or occupy wall street, doesn't mean that my moral intuitions about such things are wrong. If you know so much about it I expect you can provide adequate facts and arguments to substantiate your pov. I look forward to being schooled.
[/quote]

is this some Soviet Russia thing?