fides' Jack Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 People who have no experience with criminal punishment really have no clue why a brick building with steel doors isn't enough. Remember, even if it is possible to absolutely contain criminals (which [i]isn't[/i] possible - some will always be able to find a way to escape), we have to employ people to care for them. Those people are [i]constantly[/i] in harms way (some are injured or even killed), and many of those guys end up so emotionally and mentally hurt that they become alcoholics. I'm not saying the Pope is wrong; we should [i]want[/i] to end capital punishment. But currently, that's not possible without endangering the lives of innocent people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 SO LET'S KILL 'EM!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiiMichael Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 We live in a society that no longer needs the death penalty in order to punish criminals and keep them away from the general public, so why should we use it? Preserving life is preferable to ending it, as I feel we can all agree on. Then there's the utilitarian argument: it's much less expensive for the state to not use the death penalty, at least in the United States. With the right of the accused to appeal, the state spends millions of dollars per death row inmate above and beyond what they would spend to keep a for-life inmate alive until natural death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 [quote name='GeorgiiMichael' timestamp='1323295550' post='2346826'] We live in a society that no longer needs the death penalty in order to punish criminals and keep them away from the general public [/quote] All you Chesterton fans out there, leave me alone - statistics have shown that this really isn't true, per my examples above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiiMichael Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1323295982' post='2346832'] All you Chesterton fans out there, leave me alone - statistics have shown that this really isn't true, per my examples above. [/quote] Then you should really provide statistics, instead of just saying, "I said so." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1323295034' post='2346817'] People who have no experience with criminal punishment really have no clue why a brick building with steel doors isn't enough. [/quote] If you're implying that people involved in criminal justice necessarily support your viewpoint I call boolsheet. Also, the fact that I don't have direct experience with warfare, wife-beating, or occupy wall street, doesn't mean that my moral intuitions about such things are wrong. If you know so much about it I expect you can provide adequate facts and arguments to substantiate your pov. I look forward to being schooled. Edited December 7, 2011 by Laudate_Dominum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 [quote name='GeorgiiMichael' timestamp='1323296117' post='2346837'] Then you should really provide statistics, instead of just saying, "I said so." [/quote] You're right. I should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1323298131' post='2346857'] If you're implying that people involved in criminal justice necessarily support your viewpoint I call boolsheet. Also, the fact that I don't have direct experience with warfare, wife-beating, or occupy wall street, doesn't mean that my moral intuitions about such things are wrong. If you know so much about it I expect you can provide adequate facts and arguments to substantiate your pov. I look forward to being schooled. [/quote] I'm not saying that; nor am I implying that your moral intuitions are wrong. All I'm saying is that people (including innocents) are harmed or killed every year by prison inmates. I'm also saying that people such as prison guards know exactly how dangerous it is to be in such an occupation. My argument isn't about whether or not the death penalty is right. My argument is simply that the idea that we can currently keep people safe by keeping other people behind bars is flawed. I'll admit that the [i]general public [/i](by this I mean the majority of the public) can be kept safe from the [i]worst[/i] of the offenders, but there still exists a real danger. "Bricks and bars" just aren't enough. So - no schooling from me. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 As someone who has actually witnessed an execution, I can truthfully say that there was nothing Christian or biblical about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1323282816' post='2346613'] [b]Catechism of the Council of Trent[/b] The power of life and death is permitted to certain civil magistrates because theirs is the responsibility under law to punish the guilty and protect the innocent. Far from being guilty of breaking this commandment [Thy shall not kill], such an execution of justice is precisely an act of obedience to it. For the purpose of the law is to protect and foster human life. This purpose is fulfilled when the legitimate authority of the State is exercised by taking the guilty lives of those who have taken innocent lives. In the Psalms we find a vindication of this right: “Morning by morning I will destroy all the wicked in the land, cutting off all evildoers from the city of the Lord” (Ps. 101:8). [right][size=2][size=3]([i]Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent[/i], 1566, Part III, 5, n. 4[/size])[/size][/right] [/quote] What a bunch of outdated nonsense Trent doesn't matter anymore, not really. That kind of dogmatic thinking should be given no praise or honor, just mockery and rejection. Thankfully we have developed ourselves away from the Holy Ghost's stupid, outdated, barbaric, rightwing nonsense that some how the State has a right to enforce justice on the wicked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I always find it interesting that those who are most opposed to the government handling anything for them are enthused for that same inept, corrupt, and non-Christian government decide who deserves to die, and to carry it out in our name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1323306777' post='2346985'] I always find it interesting that those who are most opposed to the government handling anything for them are enthused for that same inept, corrupt, and non-Christian government decide who deserves to die, and to carry it out in our name. [/quote] you noticed that too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 i believe in the state of texas, we've killed more innocent men than guilty men in the last decade... ...and our civil magistrates don't have the power to raise them from the dead.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1323306777' post='2346985'] I always find it interesting that those who are most opposed to the government handling anything for them are enthused for that same inept, corrupt, and non-Christian government decide who deserves to die, and to carry it out in our name. [/quote] Which would include the Church Fathers at Trent. Good thing for us we know better and have better developed morals than they. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiiMichael Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1323307778' post='2347010'] Which would include the Church Fathers at Trent. Good thing for us we know better and have better developed morals than they. [/quote] That's not what's being said at all. I hope you realize this and are just trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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