fides' Jack Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Also, to answer some post a couple pages ago from I don't know whom, it's better the end an innocent life wrongfully accused than to let a murderer out of prison. At least the innocent life would know the time of his death and can properly prepare himself. But if the guilty party ends up killing anyone, the killed person will not have time to prepare himself. (thinking about eternal souls, here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1326333684' post='2367300'] Peter Singer much? [/quote] [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1326340714' post='2367402'] that sounds a lot like those prochoice arguments about how being born into poverty, and abusive homes is more inhumane than just aborting the kid. [/quote] Might as well lump St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, Innocent I, Innocent III, and Pius XII in there with Peter Singer singer too, while your at it. The Church has taught that a murderer by his actions forfeits his own right to life, and that the state has the right to take it. I'm not arguing for euthanasia, but for a just punishment. If capital punishment was intrinsically evil as euthanasia of human beings and abortion, the Church would have said so, but She has not. My point is that I'm not so sure Super Max prisons are really the wonderful, more civilized, alternative to the death penalty people here make them out to be (besides the issue practical impossibility of putting all dangerous murderous criminals in Super Maxes). That is all. Playing the Peter Singer card here is really as stupid as the Hitler card. C'mon people, how about more rational discussion, and less knee-jerk attacks. I expect better from y'all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1326392212' post='2367708'] I agree. And hardly conducive to repentance and reformation? I beg to disagree. Or rather, I won't beg, I'll just do it. What's not conducive to repentance about concrete beds, concrete toilet, concrete water fountain, and concrete walls? Sounds to me like the ideal place for real meditation and prayer. I can't think of a better place to clear out my head for a while to be able to actually listen to God. [/quote] Or much more conducive to sending a man into irrevocable violent insanity, as in fact happens to many in Super Max prisons. (And the shuffling of prisoners in and out of these facilities and into mental health institutions hardly sounds conducive to the protection of the public). I've yet to hear of anyone reforming their life from the Super Max experience. Knowing that one must meet his maker at a certain set date can focus one's thoughts and life in a way that wasting away in prisons to die a natural death (or perhaps at the hands of other inmates) does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1326330943' post='2367262'] It looks to me that life in a super max prison would be far more inhumane and degrading than being sentenced to death by legal injection, and hardly conducive to repentance and reformation. [/quote]Hmmm... WWGD? Seems to be the options God gives is complete submission or unimaginable torture for eternity. The death penalty is too kind and not Godly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='fides' Jack' timestamp='1325198088' post='2359606'] How did this become about liturgical dance? [/quote] It's the only thing Socrates can win at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1326141929' post='2365828'] [quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1326134455' post='2365719'] But my reading is tempered with reason, logic and in this case Sacred Tradition. Therefor I am able to tell the difference between prudential judgment which is not Church teaching per se and actual Church teaching. [/quote] So modest and humble, an example for us all! [/quote] Knight is a legend in his own vivid imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1326523336' post='2368789'] It's the only thing Socrates can win at. [/quote] Didn't you see him and Jamie win the latest season of "Liturgical Dancing With the Stars"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1326245379' post='2366606'] We just need to put everybody in Super-Maxes, and our problems will all be solved. [/quote] Sounds fine on paper, until a judge decides to let them loose back into society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laudate_Dominum Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1326411709' post='2367931'] Might as well lump St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, Innocent I, Innocent III, and Pius XII in there with Peter Singer singer too, while your at it. The Church has taught that a murderer by his actions forfeits his own right to life, and that the state has the right to take it. I'm not arguing for euthanasia, but for a just punishment. If capital punishment was intrinsically evil as euthanasia of human beings and abortion, the Church would have said so, but She has not. My point is that I'm not so sure Super Max prisons are really the wonderful, more civilized, alternative to the death penalty people here make them out to be (besides the issue practical impossibility of putting all dangerous murderous criminals in Super Maxes). That is all. Playing the Peter Singer card here is really as stupid as the Hitler card. C'mon people, how about more rational discussion, and less knee-jerk attacks. I expect better from y'all. [/quote] It was a knee-jerk dig, for teh lulz. I haven't even read this thread yet. I'd like to participate once i get around to reading the discussion. lol. Pay me no mind. ETA: Okay, I just skimmed the parts of this thread that I'd missed and I guess I wasn't significantly out of the loop. Well, interpret my jab as a request for explanation since on the surface it sounded like you might be inclined to reduce the issue to some kind of utilitarian calculus. I completely agree that the Singer jab was cheap and comparable to the Hitler card. It was shameless too. Edited January 15, 2012 by Laudate_Dominum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark of the Cross Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1326573305' post='2369016'] Knight is a legend in his own vivid imagination. [/quote] This seemed like a bit of a joke at the time of writing. In retrospect it's a cheap shot. Sorry KofC! If a mod would like to fix it. The one about Socrates is a joke too in case anyone didn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1326590288' post='2369260'] Sounds fine on paper, until a judge decides to let them loose back into society. [/quote] Appears you missed the dripping sarcasm in my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1326411709' post='2367931'] Might as well lump St. Thomas Aquinas, St. Augustine, Innocent I, Innocent III, and Pius XII in there with Peter Singer singer too, while your at it. The Church has taught that a murderer by his actions forfeits his own right to life, and that the state has the right to take it. I'm not arguing for euthanasia, but for a just punishment. If capital punishment was intrinsically evil as euthanasia of human beings and abortion, the Church would have said so, but She has not. My point is that I'm not so sure Super Max prisons are really the wonderful, more civilized, alternative to the death penalty people here make them out to be (besides the issue practical impossibility of putting all dangerous murderous criminals in Super Maxes). That is all. Playing the Peter Singer card here is really as stupid as the Hitler card. C'mon people, how about more rational discussion, and less knee-jerk attacks. I expect better from y'all. [/quote] Really? This coming from the guy who cannot reach around from behind Aquinas's large robes every time the subject comes up? If you could stop running and hiding behind Aquinas and an obscure quote made by Ratzinger, then I'll take you seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) [quote name='jaime' timestamp='1326668171' post='2369688'] Really? This coming from the guy who cannot reach around from behind Aquinas's large robes every time the subject comes up? If you could stop running and hiding behind Aquinas and an obscure quote made by Ratzinger, then I'll take you seriously. [/quote] Yeah, St. Thomas Aquinas and that obscure Ratzinger dude aren't to be taken seriously. I've quoted from and referenced other people as well, including popes and Church Councils, but I'm sure they're inconsequential in the Church as well. I guess I shouldn't take you seriously, since you keep hiding behind the robes of John Paul II. I'll quote whom I like, thank you. Whether or not you take it seriously is your own problem. Edited January 15, 2012 by Socrates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1326668700' post='2369692'] Yeah, St. Thomas Aquinas and that obscure Ratzinger dude aren't to be taken seriously. I've quoted from and referenced other people as well, including popes and Church Councils, but I'm sure they're inconsequential in the Church as well. I guess I shouldn't take you seriously, since you keep hiding behind the robes of John Paul II. I'll quote who I like, thank you. Whether or not you take it seriously is your own problem. [/quote] Point to the post of mine that you ever took seriously and I'll consider it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 [quote name='jaime' timestamp='1326669205' post='2369697'] Point to the post of mine that you ever took seriously and I'll consider it [/quote] Good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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