Believing In Santa

[scardella]

I don't think anything is wrong with Santa Claus. I do think that moderation in gift giving for children is called for.

The key is to explicitly link this Santa Claus to Jesus. I don't think Santa is necessary, but so long as you recognize that these gifts are given in honor of Jesus' birth, then I don't think you'll have any problems.

My in-laws have a tradition of keeping the "Santa" gifts limited to 3, to remind the children of the gold, frankincense and myrrh (and to keep the holiday budget in balance). I think it's a wonderful way to still have the Santa tradition without it getting too out of hand.

I'm fishing for a quote here by GK Chesterton... found it:
"[b]Mr. [url="http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_McCabe"]McCabe[/url] thinks me a slave because I am not allowed to believe in determinism. I think Mr. McCabe a slave because he is not allowed to believe in fairies."[/b]

[i<3franciscans]

I loved believing in Santa as a child. I treasure the memories of my siblings and I lying awake at night breathing silently hoping to hear Santa land on our roof. I wouldn't trade those nights for anything. And it did not take away from the religious side of Christmas a all. I remember as a child wishing Jesus a happy birthday countless times throughout the day.

Edited December 5, 2011 by i<3franciscans

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Maximilianus' timestamp='1323079587' post='2344836']

This and the fact that the modern incarnation of Santa no longer resembles St. Nicholas. To me he has come symbolize the commercialism and secularism that has crept into Christmas.
Anyways it's St. Nicholas Day eve, make sure you put your shoes out. All the folks that post regularly in the bad Catholics thread are getting coal, the people that post in the good Catholic thread are getting candy, the people that post in both are getting fruitcake.
[/quote]
I have gotten coal before. No biggie.

[i<3franciscans]

[quote name='Maximilianus' timestamp='1323079587' post='2344836']

This and the fact that the modern incarnation of Santa no longer resembles St. Nicholas. To me he has come symbolize the commercialism and secularism that has crept into Christmas.
Anyways it's St. Nicholas Day eve, make sure you put your shoes out. All the folks that post regularly in the bad Catholics thread are getting coal, the people that post in the good Catholic thread are getting candy, the people that post in both are getting fruitcake.
[/quote]
but I don't like fruitcake...

[Luigi]

Maximilianus said: "Anyways it's St. Nicholas Day eve, make sure you put your shoes out. All the folks that post regularly in the bad Catholics thread are getting coal, the people that post in the good Catholic thread are getting candy, the people that post in both are getting fruitcake."

I [i][b]love[/b][/i] fruitcake! Especially Trappist fruitcake. From Gethsemani or Ava.


And I do post on both boards.

[i<3franciscans]

[quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1323106406' post='2344943']
Maximilianus said: "Anyways it's St. Nicholas Day eve, make sure you put your shoes out. All the folks that post regularly in the bad Catholics thread are getting coal, the people that post in the good Catholic thread are getting candy, the people that post in both are getting fruitcake."

I [i][b]love[/b][/i] fruitcake! Especially Trappist fruitcake. From Gethsemani or Ava.


And I do post on both boards.
[/quote]
you can have my fruitcake if you want.

[fides quarens intellectum]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1323089000' post='2344846']
We celebrate St. Nicholas Day and do stockings then. We then spread things out over the whole 12 days of Christmas, so we've not really discussed Santa.
[/quote]

that's kinda how we're hoping to do things

[GeorgiiMichael]

I think the problem with this thread, and despite a lack of any real hostility, I still think it's a problem, is that we are calling the Santa myth a lie, instead of...well... a myth. Myths don't need to be true to spread the Truth. And for children, a Santa figure is a great way to tell the Truth of the season of Christmas. It's not a lie, lying is everywhere and always wrong, it's an age appropriate myth used for the spreading of the Truth of the season.

I don't think it's a problem one way or the other. If some of you don't tell your kids about Santa, that's your prerogative, same with those who do tell your kids about Santa.

But please, let's avoid the use of the word "lie" because it isn't a lie.

And I hate to name drop (or position drop in this case) but this position is one that was distinguished for me by my professor of Moral Philosophy, who also happens to be one of the smartest priests I've ever met (Naval Academy, Rhodes Scholar, Oxford, etc). I say this not to tell you that you need to tell your kids about Santa, only to say that Santa isn't a lie, as this thread keeps saying.

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='GeorgiiMichael' timestamp='1323110788' post='2344995']
I think the problem with this thread, and despite a lack of any real hostility, I still think it's a problem, is that we are calling the Santa myth a lie, instead of...well... a myth. Myths don't need to be true to spread the Truth. And for children, a Santa figure is a great way to tell the Truth of the season of Christmas. It's not a lie, lying is everywhere and always wrong, it's an age appropriate myth used for the spreading of the Truth of the season.

I don't think it's a problem one way or the other. If some of you don't tell your kids about Santa, that's your prerogative, same with those who do tell your kids about Santa.

But please, let's avoid the use of the word "lie" because it isn't a lie.

And I hate to name drop (or position drop in this case) but this position is one that was distinguished for me by my professor of Moral Philosophy, who also happens to be one of the smartest priests I've ever met (Naval Academy, Rhodes Scholar, Oxford, etc). I say this not to tell you that you need to tell your kids about Santa, only to say that Santa isn't a lie, as this thread keeps saying.
[/quote]

I'd give this props if I hadn't already spent my daily quota. I think you're right. The difference is that it only can become a lie depending on how you answer your kids when they ask you flat out about the existence of Santa. But including them in the myth of Santa isn't a lie. There're plenty of things that are part of the Christian tradition that are more myth than fact. Take St. Christopher, for example. Does that mean we should never speak of St. Christopher again or tell his story to children? Of course not. Must be believe that God created the world in a literal seven days exactly how it's portrayed in Genesis? No, we don't have to.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Basilisa Marie

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='GeorgiiMichael' timestamp='1323110788' post='2344995']
I think the problem with this thread, and despite a lack of any real hostility, I still think it's a problem, is that we are calling the Santa myth a lie, instead of...well... a myth. Myths don't need to be true to spread the Truth. And for children, a Santa figure is a great way to tell the Truth of the season of Christmas. It's not a lie, lying is everywhere and always wrong, it's an age appropriate myth used for the spreading of the Truth of the season.

I don't think it's a problem one way or the other. If some of you don't tell your kids about Santa, that's your prerogative, same with those who do tell your kids about Santa.

But please, let's avoid the use of the word "lie" because it isn't a lie.

And I hate to name drop (or position drop in this case) but this position is one that was distinguished for me by my professor of Moral Philosophy, who also happens to be one of the smartest priests I've ever met (Naval Academy, Rhodes Scholar, Oxford, etc). I say this not to tell you that you need to tell your kids about Santa, only to say that Santa isn't a lie, as this thread keeps saying.
[/quote]
I considered that, but I wonder about the mode of presentation. I won't argue that Santa Claus [i]could be[/i] an acceptable myth, but I do have an issue with that myth being presented [i]as truth[/i]. There is some moral difference, at least in my mind, between presenting a myth as a myth and presenting it as truth.
I am conflicted though because I do see some wiggle room.

[dominicansoul]

when you think about it, santa claus does exist, or we wouldn't be having this conversation....

(i just re-read, "Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus..")

[Papist]

Maybe I am too pragmatic or have some Vulcan in my blood. I just don’t get the Santa thing, the secular Santa not St. Nicholas.

Also, if you misspell Santa, who do you have?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1323113911' post='2345030']
Maybe I am too pragmatic or have some Vulcan in my blood. I just don’t get the Santa thing, the secular Santa not St. Nicholas.

Also, if you misspell Santa, who do you have?
[/quote]
Sntaa?

[Papist]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1323114203' post='2345033']
Sntaa?
[/quote]
[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-g4GvnHisCZ0/TZpxjtX4nsI/AAAAAAAAAac/wUjoqFdkOfE/s1600/2502-2659-large.jpg[/img]

[Nihil Obstat]

Also Taans.