Art Vs. Craft

[arfink]

[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1322789264' post='2343461']
Now, I'm not sure about you pholks, but I've never felt this "Veni, Creator Spiritus" by watching my shop teacher build a birdhouse.
[/quote]

I may not have felt that way towards a bird house in shop class, having never been in a shop class, but I did feel that kind of awe when I first studied computer architecture. The glory of God's logic made manifest in machine by the hands of man. But then, I am an uber geek.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1322789264' post='2343461']
I think art has to have a certain amount of "Veni, Creator Spiritus" in it. Art has the ability to awe us by beauty, it has the ability to give us "goosebumps", it has the ability to inspire us to be more than just "flesh and bone". Sound familiar? The Holy Spirit gives us these same compulsions.

True art has to be a reflection of the artist. For example, the beauty of nature is a reflection of the beauty of God. It is filled with this "Veni, Creator Spiritus", this Spirit that is God. When you listen to a song like [i]Yesterday[/i] by The Beatles, its almost like you have a glimpse of what McCartney was feeling at that moment.

Music has the ability to speak to us in profound ways. We connect with lyrics and melodies, both of which contain a vast amount of emotion in them. Songs that are more upbeat have a happy, or joyful mood to them. I know that one of the key mediums that The Holy Spirit used to show itself to me and bring me to love Him was praise and worship music and sacred music, especially Gregorian Chant.

Now, I'm not sure about you pholks, but I've never felt this "Veni, Creator Spiritus" by watching my shop teacher build a birdhouse.

Anybody, if they set their mind to it, can build a birdhouse. But only someone who is truly inspired can create "true art." Only someone who has been given talents by God, can create something that is so immensely drenched in emotion that it can move someone to tears, or laughter, or desolation or consolation. But I believe that we all have this talent, this "inspiration", but we just have to find the proper medium that God has destined for us.
[/quote]
[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1322790120' post='2343470']

I may not have felt that way towards a bird house in shop class, having never been in a shop class, but I did feel that kind of awe when I first studied computer architecture. The glory of God's logic made manifest in machine by the hands of man. But then, I am an uber geek.
[/quote]
Once in a while I perceive that in architecture. Specifically the best of the Gothic, Baroque, and Cistercian churches, as well as a couple examples from modern periods. Taipei 101, for instance.

[BigJon16]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1322790652' post='2343471']
Once in a while I perceive that in architecture. Specifically the best of the Gothic, Baroque, and Cistercian churches, as well as a couple examples from modern periods. Taipei 101, for instance.
[/quote]



In a way, it is very much possible for architecture to reflect the architect.

[Vincent Vega]

Perhaps they also vary in their subjective/objective natures. One individual may say that John Cage's [i]4'33 [/i]is art and another may say that it isn't, and both could make a compelling case, and neither might necessarily be "correct" or "incorrect", but a small earthen ashtray, no matter how terrible or lumpy, is still a small earthen ashtray. The "craft-fullness" (no matter how shoddy or ugly it is) of it can't be removed.

[Nola Seminarian]

[quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1322781862' post='2343385']

You have enough "something"s in this sentence to start a Something Store! or something.
[/quote]

i need to work on expanding my vocabulary and explaining myself better, thank you, brother, for keeping me humble.

[Luigi]

[quote name='Nola Seminarian' timestamp='1322841320' post='2343635']

i need to work on expanding my vocabulary and explaining myself better, thank you, brother, for keeping me humble.
[/quote]

Just something to keep in mind - when I write, and then I read what I wrote, if I find 'thing' or 'something' I have to holler at myself, "There are a million words in the English language - pick a better one!"

Since it's something I'm very aware of in my own writing, I notice it in other people's, too.


But this is not the Writing Improvement thread, so don't worry about it too much.

Edited December 2, 2011 by Luigi

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1322791839' post='2343475']



In a way, it is very much possible for architecture to reflect the architect.
[/quote]
Absolutely. That's why Brutalism is quintessentially socialist/communist, and why so many horrendous churches were built in the last 40 years.

[Papist]

I believe art is beauty that appeals to the human senses. I do not believe art requires any explanation, such as the emotional story of the artist. The piece should stand on its own, such as Mozart's, Requiem, Van Gogh's Starry Night or a chef's Confit de Canard.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1322872607' post='2343821']
I believe art is beauty that appeals to the human senses. I do not believe art requires any explanation, such as the emotional story of the artist. The piece should stand on its own, such as Mozart's, Requiem, Van Gogh's Starry Night or a chef's Confit de Canard.
[/quote]
The reason that we do not need an "explanation" for Mozart's Requiem is because we have been culturally prepared to do so. If we had been raised in 13th century Indonesia, we would have found it very odd indeed, having been raised to accept the sounds of the munggang to be what music is "supposed" to sound like. Indeed, even if we had been raised in 13th century [i]Germany [/i]we would find his Requiem very foreign, as the way [Western] music "works" developed drastically between the 13th and 18th centuries.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1322939365' post='2344100']
The reason that we do not need an "explanation" for Mozart's Requiem is because we have been culturally prepared to do so. If we had been raised in 13th century Indonesia, we would have found it very odd indeed, having been raised to accept the sounds of the munggang to be what music is "supposed" to sound like. Indeed, even if we had been raised in 13th century [i]Germany [/i]we would find his Requiem very foreign, as the way [Western] music "works" developed drastically between the 13th and 18th centuries.
[/quote]
I don't think that not being used to a particular cultural style of art isn't the same thing as not appreciating it. I have little to no exposure to the Coptic culture, but I find Coptic chant to be sublimely beautiful. I also greatly appreciate traditional Russian chant, despite have almost no exposure to that culture either. It sounds very foreign to me, exotic in some ways, and I guess you could say "odd" if you wanted to push it a bit, but that doesn't mean I have any trouble whatsoever appreciating it as art.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Luigi' timestamp='1322783106' post='2343399']

I think it's fair to say that eveyone agrees with the obvious claim that homosexual anarchists produce the best artistic depictions of President Obama, don't you?
[/quote]
Except for those who like to read Harry Potter stories.

[Socrates]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1322758511' post='2343200']
There is perhaps some overlap, but there are differences. I guess craft has to be material/tangible. I would consider music to be art, but not craft.
[/quote]
Sculpture is most definitely art, yet is certainly material/tangible.



[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1322790652' post='2343471']
Once in a while I perceive that in architecture. Specifically the best of the Gothic, Baroque, and Cistercian churches, as well as a couple examples from modern periods. Taipei 101, for instance.
[/quote]
Architecture is also definitely a form of art. That isn't to say that most architecture (at least in the modern age) is necessarily good art, but neither is a lot of painting, etc.

Anything beyond the most rudimentary shelter involves some form of aesthetics and artistic judgment.


I'd say that every great artist is also a skilled craftsman, yet not every craftsman is an artist.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1322941698' post='2344116']
Sculpture is most definitely art, yet is certainly material/tangible.




Architecture is also definitely a form of art. That isn't to say that most architecture (at least in the modern age) is necessarily good art, but neither is a lot of painting, etc.

Anything beyond the most rudimentary shelter involves some form of aesthetics and artistic judgment.


I'd say that every great artist is also a skilled craftsman, yet not every craftsman is an artist.
[/quote]
I agree with all of this.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1322941698' post='2344116']
Sculpture is most definitely art, yet is certainly material/tangible.
[/quote]
I never said that art had to be intangible.