stevil Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I know Catholics are taught that abstinance only is the only way to go, but here is a report, seemingly objective using data across the USA states. [url="http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0024658;jsessionid=7E5D4CFA54B7D9BD98BC2432D43AD046"]http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0024658;jsessionid=7E5D4CFA54B7D9BD98BC2432D43AD046[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 short answer: we need a whole cultural shift for abstinence only education to be effective. The hypersexualization of the West along with the banalization of sexuality has become so deeply embedded that telling kids at school not to have sex is not gonna cut it. Sometimes people will ask "well I know you don't want kids having sex, but if they DO don't you want them to be as safe as possible?" And my answer to that is I don't want people being objectified whether they consent to being used or not. It's unhealthy for the individual and society. I also don't think throwing a condom on = safe sex. In fact now they're calling it "safer sex" because they concede a condom can't even protect you from everything physically, much less psychologically/emotionally. To me the question is like asking "well we know you don't want people driving drunk, but if they DO wouldn't you rather them wear a seatbelt?" I get where you're coming from stevil but I think you have such an opposing viewpoint that I don't know how much fruitful discussion can happen here. Typically Catholics advocate self-control, which is laughed at in an instant-gratification society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Often times where abstinence is taught, it is done so by forcing the teachers to do so, and they do a carpy job. When a teacher told my son that they had to teach it eventhough it doesn't work, I figured that it wasn't going to be real helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Well as soon as it starts working, let us know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 It's ironic that this topic is coming up in the season that marks the only time in history where abstinence failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1322698971' post='2342933'] It's ironic that this topic is coming up in the season that marks the only time in history where abstinence failed. [/quote] Abstinence never fails. But teaching it sure seems to fail pretty hard. which is probably why, in machine shops they put guards over things instead of just saying, dont put your hand near there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1322699128' post='2342934'] Abstinence never fails. But teaching it sure seems to fail pretty hard. which is probably why, in machine shops they put guards over things instead of just saying, dont put your hand near there. [/quote] Guards eh? I think I get it. This is what chaperons are for. You know, those pesky old-people-things that would follow young Victorian women to social events to prevent hanky panky. That would be a great thing to re-introduce to society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1322698919' post='2342932'] Well as soon as it starts working, let us know. [/quote] Oh yeah, and one other thing I'd like to point out- the double standard of abstinence and the drinking age. OK, so lets get this straight- we'll teach kids to use condoms and do whatever they want as long as it's "safe," but we're going to positively forbid them to drink any alcohol until they are 21. And yet many of the same people who complain about abstinence education are most certainly not complaining about forcing kids to not drink. So perhaps we might consider a compromise for the public square: sex is OK, but you can't actually buy any condoms until you're 18/21/45/whatever, and you'll get busted/fined if you provide them to minors. That way all parties involved will be disgruntled and unhappy. Huzzah for compromise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='arfink' timestamp='1322701172' post='2342943'] Oh yeah, and one other thing I'd like to point out- the double standard of abstinence and the drinking age. OK, so lets get this straight- we'll teach kids to use condoms and do whatever they want as long as it's "safe," but we're going to positively forbid them to drink any alcohol until they are 21. And yet many of the same people who complain about abstinence education are most certainly not complaining about forcing kids to not drink. So perhaps we might consider a compromise for the public square: sex is OK, but you can't actually buy any condoms until you're 18/21/45/whatever, and you'll get busted/fined if you provide them to minors. That way all parties involved will be disgruntled and unhappy. Huzzah for compromise! [/quote] What if someone objects morally and philosophically to a government mandated drinking age? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 I don't understand why it is the government's job to teach kids about sex, and not the parents'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1322701665' post='2342945'] What if someone objects morally and philosophically to a government mandated drinking age? [/quote] Then they should also object to the enforcement of any kind of teaching program concerning sex-ed, one way or another. If not, then we have a very valuable armor-chink exposed. Also, chaperons. Get thee some. Edited December 1, 2011 by arfink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1322702115' post='2342946'] I don't understand why it is the government's job to teach kids about sex, and not the parents'. [/quote] have you met a lot of parents lately? some of them i wonder if they even know how babies are made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 it worked for all my nephews and nieces, who are outstanding devout Catholic, mature young men and women... the thing is, they come from very devoted parents who love them tremendously...to the point of sacrificing for them...like I've said before, satan started attacking the family unit a looooooong time ago... we are seeing teh fall out of a contraceptive society... parent don't love the children they create... so, they figure the government is there to teach them everything... like ice_nine said, millions of hearts will have to change before we see this plan work... but of course, the Church has to do a great deal of catechesis in order to save those millions, and we've been in a rut for the last 40 years in that department... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='arfink' timestamp='1322702212' post='2342949'] Then they should also object to the enforcement of any kind of teaching program concerning sex-ed, one way or another. If not, then we have a very valuable armor-chink exposed. [/quote] Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1322702518' post='2342954'] have you met a lot of parents lately? some of them i wonder if they even know how babies are made. [/quote] So logically all kids should have to go through it because some parents are derelict in their duties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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