bernadette d Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 [quote name='Francis Clare' timestamp='1323269646' post='2346421'] [i]"Thank goodness for that!! Having reached my 60's, been single (and worked in the Church virtually all my adult life) I know that love does not depend on ones state in life, it is definitely not a case of "one size fits all" you will love and be loved wherever you follow Christ open-heartedly."[/i] With adult children and small grandchildren, I can agree with everything about this post except the part about being single! Not to be trite, but an old song that was once popular in my generation said "Love is all around". And I can testify that it most definitely is. It spmetimes comes to you in over the top ways, but often it's found in a smile, kind words, a hug, a thank-you, in looking at the things in nature, in having a baby coo at you, or having a puppy lick your face. Yes, there is love in obvious ways, but also in the seemingly mundane. Be open to it. Share it. Spread it around! [/quote] Slight confusion here!!! did you mean you can "relate to" or "understand" the above, or something else that I am not seeing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feankie Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 No, I'm just saying I agree with everything EXCEPT the part about being single Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernadette d Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 [quote name='Francis Clare' timestamp='1323295878' post='2346831'] No, I'm just saying I agree with everything EXCEPT the part about being single [/quote] I am obviously being very thick!! It sounds as though being single is somehow precluding the things you go on to list, I don't think so. I was simply saying that I have not found being single all my life any barrier to being able to give and receive love. Also I do not believe it to be true in general, one's state in life does not determine the capacity to/for love. Do you disagree with that? I would love to know what others think too. I am confused, but I don't mean to be confrontational in any way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Marie Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Maybe this is incorrect... but I think Francis Clare was saying that she isn't single... so she agrees with everything you are saying - she just happens to not be a single woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernadette d Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 [quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1323301879' post='2346893'] Maybe this is incorrect... but I think Francis Clare was saying that she isn't single... so she agrees with everything you are saying - she just happens to not be a single woman. [/quote] Thank you for that, I did wonder if that were the case, (see my first reply) I hope it is that. Thank you for replying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Marie Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 I think she didn't realize what you were saying either ... its classic computer communication problems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feankie Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 You're correct. I do agree with everything you are saying, but I'm just not a single woman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah147 Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 (edited) [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1323264875' post='2346379'] If being single meant a loveless life then consecrated virgins and hermits would be loveless as well! And the desert fathers and mothers were aflame with love despite their solitary lifestyle! In fact, living in a religious community isn't always the easiest way to life a life of love!! Communities are not only a great gift, they can also be a pretty good penance as well As for families, well I think we all know that families (as much as we love them) can also be a source of great suffering for us in many ways! Let's face it, any situation can be both heaven and h*ll, full of love or full of self! [/quote] That is so true. I guess, it's just in the friendships and contacts I have and have had, it typically is just a "hey, how are you doing" chit chat, and with some we catch up sometimes. But it's generally just been a best friend I've lived with kind of that I really experienced a loving relationship, hugs, laughs, really caring what I have to say, helping me through tough times, everything. Very motherly, more than my own mother ever did. And her health is bad and I won't be able to live with her forever and such. I just don't see where I can get that if living by myself in the future. Hopefully in a religious community, if I'm called, which I believe I am. But if that isn't what God wants... Edited December 8, 2011 by JoyfulLife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Marie Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 [quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1323361840' post='2347347'] I guess, it's just in the friendships and contacts I have and have had, it typically is just a "hey, how are you doing" chit chat, and with some we catch up sometimes. But it's generally just been a best friend I've lived with kind of that I really experienced a loving relationship, hugs, laughs, really caring what I have to say, helping me through tough times, everything. Very motherly, more than my own mother ever did. And her health is bad and I won't be able to live with her forever and such. I just don't see where I can get that if living by myself in the future. Hopefully in a religious community, if I'm called, which I believe I am. But if that isn't what God wants... [/quote] I can't completely describe the nature of the relationships between sisters in religious life in one post but I have to say that you are not going to find the kind of relationship you described above in religious life. There are a few reasons why. First, in most communities being "general" is a virtue. Generality means in very simple terms that whether you can't stand a sister, whether she is mean to you, whether she is nice to you, whether you like her... you give yourself in exactly the same way to her as to the others. You may be closer to some sisters than others but you are expected to relate to all sisters in community as your sisters in Christ... not necessarily as blood sisters would relate. You will find that there WILL be sisters who are not kind to you. When that happens you cannot find someone else to meet your emotional needs and make you feel better... that is when the sacrifice of love comes into play. Like St. Therese we must attempt to love them even more. Secondly, community is not about what you receive... it is about what you give. Jesus' love brought Him to a horrific death - so should ours. The love sisters have for one another in community is characterized more by interior sacrifice of will, wants, and needs than by that kind of intimate relationship. The support we receive from one another is not because of verbal encouragement and kindness but because the nature of our life leads us to the sacrifice which teaches us to love as Christ. Community doesn't support chastity because it takes the place of that type of relationship but because it safeguards an empty place within us that can only be filled by God - not our sisters. Third, one of the biggest disappointments women have early in religious life is that community is not what they expected it to be. Some expected relationships like mothers, blood sisters, family, friends... it is never any of those relationships. You will live with people you wouldn't have even considered associating with when you were in the world... now you must love them. The focus of religious life is not for the filling of an emptiness within us but for the preservation of that emptiness for God alone and then the pouring out of God's love on those we meet. If any sister DID fulfill that empty place within another... it would be time to rethink that relationship because it detracts from ones vocation not enhances it. I'm not sure if this all makes sense and I'm trying to think of a good example to illustrate what I mean... I write this because I don't want women to enter communities with expectations that are unrealistic or with motives that won't be fulfilled in religious life. I'm not trying to be dramatic but religious life is austere and it is a call to death so that we can try to live the relationship with God that we will have in eternal life. There are sisters who will be kind and who will help you and who will truly love you... but they must also offer that in the same way to the other sisters around them. In religious life, there are saints and saint makers... women who are incredibly holy and the rest of us who are trying and possibly failing - we succeed by clinging to Christ... not to any human relationship. They can help us but they are not the ones that save us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i<3franciscans Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 [quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1323365626' post='2347389'] I can't completely describe the nature of the relationships between sisters in religious life in one post but I have to say that you are not going to find the kind of relationship you described above in religious life. There are a few reasons why. First, in most communities being "general" is a virtue. Generality means in very simple terms that whether you can't stand a sister, whether she is mean to you, whether she is nice to you, whether you like her... you give yourself in exactly the same way to her as to the others. You may be closer to some sisters than others but you are expected to relate to all sisters in community as your sisters in Christ... not necessarily as blood sisters would relate. You will find that there WILL be sisters who are not kind to you. When that happens you cannot find someone else to meet your emotional needs and make you feel better... that is when the sacrifice of love comes into play. Like St. Therese we must attempt to love them even more. Secondly, community is not about what you receive... it is about what you give. Jesus' love brought Him to a horrific death - so should ours. The love sisters have for one another in community is characterized more by interior sacrifice of will, wants, and needs than by that kind of intimate relationship. The support we receive from one another is not because of verbal encouragement and kindness but because the nature of our life leads us to the sacrifice which teaches us to love as Christ. Community doesn't support chastity because it takes the place of that type of relationship but because it safeguards an empty place within us that can only be filled by God - not our sisters. Third, one of the biggest disappointments women have early in religious life is that community is not what they expected it to be. Some expected relationships like mothers, blood sisters, family, friends... it is never any of those relationships. You will live with people you wouldn't have even considered associating with when you were in the world... now you must love them. The focus of religious life is not for the filling of an emptiness within us but for the preservation of that emptiness for God alone and then the pouring out of God's love on those we meet. If any sister DID fulfill that empty place within another... it would be time to rethink that relationship because it detracts from ones vocation not enhances it. I'm not sure if this all makes sense and I'm trying to think of a good example to illustrate what I mean... I write this because I don't want women to enter communities with expectations that are unrealistic or with motives that won't be fulfilled in religious life. I'm not trying to be dramatic but religious life is austere and it is a call to death so that we can try to live the relationship with God that we will have in eternal life. There are sisters who will be kind and who will help you and who will truly love you... but they must also offer that in the same way to the other sisters around them. In religious life, there are saints and saint makers... women who are incredibly holy and the rest of us who are trying and possibly failing - we succeed by clinging to Christ... not to any human relationship. They can help us but they are not the ones that save us. [/quote] It all makes perfect sense. Thank you so much for sharing this. I know it was not directed toward me, but it was so insightful and very helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sister Marie Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Just to clarify... I'm going off of what Joyful said but I'm also not directing it towards her either. It's just a general observation that I've noticed both in myself when I entered religious life and in things I hear other people saying from outside the experience of religious life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i<3franciscans Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StClare_OraProNobis Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Actually, any kind of emotional dependency goes against the vow of chastity in religious life. There is indeed a healthy interdependence that exists. However, religious life can be very difficult because there is a real sense in which you must sacrifice the intimacy with another person which is found in us naturally and disposes us to marriage. Indeed it is said that is not a "natural" way to live, but rather a "supernatural vocation." It requires grace upon grace. This is one reason why many communities are so careful about the maturity, especially emotional maturity of those they accept. I certainly had struggles in religious life. The main struggle was my mental illness, but also I had some serious "growing up" to do emotionally. We do not all have the capacity for religious life and this is not to downplay our unique gifts and qualities for the Church. Part of being mature in Christ is the humility to accept our limitations in trust and obedience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I've heard from MANY religious orders that they do not allow close relationships with Sisters. You are supposed to be there to serve Christ and His Church, not make friends. Being friendly, is one thing, but forming a clique or group of friends is not allowed. I understand this because if you get too chummy with someone, it could interfere with your duties and vows as a religious. Hope this makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 actually, it does happen somewhat, but its hard to describe... there is a supernatural bond between you and your sisters, and Christ is definitely in the center of it all..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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