Determining That Someone Isn't Called?

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[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1322750170' post='2343153']


I am thankful that after I decided to leave the convent, God allowed my relationships with my Superiors to remain. I talk to them most every week. I also happen to believe my vocation directress is on fire with the Holy Spirit, so that helps me very much. She told me after a year and a half out of the convent, to "stop discerning religious life and move on to what God is really calling you to be." And that was extremely helpful to me, else I would be spending my days wandering from one community to another, desperately seeking what God has already said "no" to...
[/quote]


Yes, I am very grateful for my contact with former communities too - even the ones where things didn't go smoothly. It has helped me so much, and I enjoy being a benefactor to them as well. I have recently sent some books to the last monastery where I was because the Prioress was not re-elected and she told me she has a lot more time to read now, so I asked her if I could send her some books (I know what she likes) and she was so pleased at the offer. It made me feel good and I love hearing the news as it happens from those places where I have lived as a family member.

I think it is only human to feel a sense of grievance when things go wrong, no matter whose 'fault' it is - just because none of us (that I know of) are saints quite yet. Over time this usually changes as we start to see more of God's hand in things and stop viewing just the human perspective. And sometimes I don't think it is really anyone's 'fault' at all - it is just part of the tapestry of life that is being woven by the divine hand of God. I can also see that sometimes it's good to give up (let go, let God) as the Martins did, and other times it is good to keep on trying (as Leonie did). There are so many stories of saints - and each one is individual, from the 'crazies' like Mary Magdalene de Pazzi (whom I adore) to the 'little children' like Therese. We don't have to be the same, God made each of us unique and special and beautiful. Sure, maybe someone might appear stubborn to one person, but to another they might be an inspiration and example of perseverence. We can all learn from each other, can't we?

JoyfulLife - just take it one step at a time and see what a beautiful path unfolds for you.... for me it all comes down to trust, trust, trust. And when we all get to heaven (hopefully) we can enjoy praising God together for our own 'stories'.

[Sarah147]

Ohhhh, thanks.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Maggie' timestamp='1322750816' post='2343158']

I might be wrong but I think nunsense might mean to type "busy"
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of course I did - can't you read my mind? busy fingers bust the keyboard!

[Sarah147]

[StClare_OraProNobis]

Hey! Dominicansoul...I think I may know you! I tried to send you a PM but it would not go through. I have been lurking here for a long time, but realized today that I might know who you are!

I had a friend, (possibly you,) who entered a community after we had met on a discernment retreat. I entered a different community, (and don't want to say which one,) a year later. Eventually we each left our respective communities and I lost touch. The last time I saw my friend I was a postulant and she was a novice and we were in NY at the youth rally that Pope Benedict XVI held at Dunwoodie seminary.

If this sounds familiar could you maybe PM me??? If you are the person I hope you are I would really love to be back in touch!!!! God bless you!

[Feankie]

My heart aches for the anguish I read here on VS, but my heart is also rejoicing for all of you that have made the tough decisions or heard the words you dreaded to hear but accepted them with grace and peace, knowing God has other things in store for you.
Please keep praying, asking, digging into the deepest recesses of your heart and psyche to truly KNOW what you KNOW! Don't just go on feelings alone as feelings can change over time...the truth does not. Know that I pray for all of you on this list daily.

[brandelynmarie]

Thank you so very very much!

[das8949]

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amen, a thousand times!

I also believe it takes humility to accept this from a religious. Oftentimes, I read or hear from others that they entered, but there was something "wrong" with the community, or the superior did not like them, or the community was weird, etc. etc. And the person who left that community blames everyone else and God, but never looks at themselves! I find this to be very sad, because in most cases, it isn't the community or the Sisters or God's fault...

One of the main points of discernment is to take a good look at one's self. It is a real eye-opener! Saint Teresa of Avila once said, if God allowed us to see ourselves as He does, we would all faint out of fear! I believe that discernment is a blessing when one allows one self to be evaluated by others and accepts what the others (through the Holy Spirit) see in them. Like I said, this takes a great deal of humility to accept, and is something one should be praying for when one is discerning the religious life. Allow the vocation directresses to guide you, that's why God places them in your path...

I am thankful that after I decided to leave the convent, God allowed my relationships with my Superiors to remain. I talk to them most every week. I also happen to believe my vocation directress is on fire with the Holy Spirit, so that helps me very much. She told me after a year and a half out of the convent, to "stop discerning religious life and move on to what God is really calling you to be." And that was extremely helpful to me, else I would be spending my days wandering from one community to another, desperately seeking what God has already said "no" to...


DS I gave you props for this as it is right on the money (however, I did not send you any of that LOL)

As I mentioned I just spent 4 nights and 3 days with Sister M. Barbra SND my PD/ND from back in the late 60's. We have been in touch for over 45 years and have spent so much time vacationing together and in communication. I love her dearly as she loves me. There are things about my life that she does not agree with but she allows me to be me and loves me in spite of or maybe because of the flaws.

Also, I have posted before what the culminizing of discernemnt meant to me in what relation I wanted my life to be/mean to God. For me, it was the signing of a blank piece of paper at the very bottom right hand corner and let God fill in the page as He/She desires.

[Guest hermanita]

[quote name='Lil'Nun' timestamp='1322725514' post='2343104']
With respect to all the other posters here. I just want to throw a few of my thoughts into the ring. This is in no means to counter or detract from anything here, I merely mean to add a few thoughts.

I think when it comes to visiting, contacting Convents it is also important to bear in mind that discerning the fit of a community is a two-way process. It is not simply the VD and community deciding you would be a good candidate it is also a matter of you discerning that it is where God wants you to be.

[/quote]

Yes!!

Even though this is a public forum and I am avery private person, you, V.S. phriends, have become a part of my faith community and so after some serious prayer, I want to share a little.

I am not a late vocation although close to end of what "young women" means to most communities. I never intended to be a Sister: fell in love at college and married a wonderful Catholic man the month after graduation. He was a Reserve Army officer and a few months after we married was recalled to duty and sent to Iraq. We were married a little over 3 years when he was killed in action.
[u]Please do not comment on this. Just pray for him. [/u]

As you can imagine, I thought everything was over.
The lessons one learns through loss and disappontment are too precious to be turned away from. Discernment is for life. And even deep sorrow is transformed through God's mercy and grace into fertile ground for new life. You all know this . It's the Paschal Mystery.

My husband taught me much about loving and being a woman of faith. Without my life with him, I would not have the heart or courage to accept this amazing privilege , to discern a vocation in community-- And how I admire you who have come to this in a more direct fashion...so young and ready to sacrifice.

So I guess I'm reminding us all that as Catholics we know that endings are always followed by beginnings.

Please don't think me preachy. It wouldn't let me alone until I shared.

hermanita

[Antigonos]

From my position on the sidelines, it would seem to me that there is a very significant difference between "not being called" and "not being called HERE". I had never realized the degree of variation between spiritualities and communities before joining the forum [I did know that there were active and contemplative communities, but that was about it]

I also didn't realize the amount of movement between communities that occurs, probably because most of what I knew came from "The Nun's Story", in which Sister Luke, when she leaves the convent, signs a document saying that she will "never resume the habit of religion" and I thought she would be precluded from ever returning to religious life in any way.

[Sarah147]

I just wondered, if a VD determines that a person isn't called, can they determine if they are called to marriage? Is that something a VD can discern about a person?

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[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1323127009' post='2345130']
I just wondered, if a VD determines that a person isn't called, can they determine if they are called to marriage? Is that something a VD can discern about a person?
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Short answer: No.

Long answer: No one can determine what your calling is in life except yourself. Spiritual Directors and Vocation Directors are there to advise and guide and direct and to offer support and suggestions but not to make that decision. That would go against free will.

If the Vocation Director is associated with a particular community, then yes, they could determine if a person is called to THAT particular community, as that is their job, but they can't do more that give their 'informed' and perhaps 'expert' opinion as to whether a person is called to religious life in itself.

My SD made it quite clear that he would not 'tell' me what to do with me life or make my decisions for me, that he was there to help me discover for myself what God is calling me to do.

If the VD is a generic one (not associated with a particular community) then they probably have a broader overview many different communities and can provide more generalised advice about religious life, but they are still there to advise and guide, not control or make decisions for the individual. It is also difficult for a VD or SD to really know the individual unless they spend more than just one interview with them, that's why an ongoing relationship with a SD is a good way to help yourself determine your vocation in life.

I have had many different advisors (VDs and SDs) give me conflicting advice as to what 'they' think my vocation is because after all, they are human too and some of them have their own preconceived notions of what a person 'should do' with their life and what is acceptable for someone who wants to be in religious life. This kind of personal prejudice isn't common, fortunately, but it does exist because (as I said before) we are all human.

For example, one advisor may think that no one with any psychological problems in their past should enter religious life, even if this is controlled by medication. Or perhaps they might think that if you had a dysfunctional family growing up you wouldn't fit into community life. These things might be areas of concern for one advisor, things to be considered and dealt with but not barriers to entering... whereas another advisor might say that they write one off as a potential religious immediately. A VD of a particular community could certainly say that a person doesn't have a vocation to their community if, for example they have been married before (even if it was annulled or the spouse has died) - IF that is one of the rules of the community. A VD not associated with a particular community however, would be more likely to say that this isn't an obstacle because there are communities who don't have a rule against previously married persons. Does that make sense?


I think a good indicator of maturity is being able to accept responsbility for one's own choices in life, whether they be religious life or marriage or single life.... while using VDs and SDs as guides along the way. We can't expect that someone else will make these life choices and decisions for us, only turn to them for guidance and support in doing it ourselves.

So if a VD told you that they felt you were probably more called to married life than religious life, this would be based on the conversations you had together, and you would need then to examine yourself and see what it was you said that made them feel this way, and if it was true or not. Certainly a good VD would help you discover just what it is that YOU are called to. Maybe you spent most of your time together talking about potential partners and how wonderful it would be to have children... that would be a good indicator that you probably weren't as interested in religious life as married life. So basically they would be helping YOU discern, they wouldn't be discerning for you.

Edited December 5, 2011 by nunsense

[Sarah147]

No one has said I should or shouldn't necessarily marry. I'm just imagining in the event that the VD might say I'm not called, as in Mater's case, I wondered if they could tell what I was instead called to. It's only been since it happened to Mater that I have really considered that could happen to me.

Edited December 6, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1323130181' post='2345175']
No one has said I should or shouldn't necessarily marry. I'm just imagining in the event that the VD might say I'm not called, as in Mater's case, I wondered if they could tell what I was instead called to. It's only been since it happened to Mater that I have really considered that could happen to me.
[/quote]


If the VD of a particular community says you are not called - I would assume that she means to THAT community. For her to help you discern if you are called to married life, I think that she would need to spend a little more time discussing things with you. That is why you need a SD - someone who helps you get to know yourself more deeply so that you can discern this for yourself.

I get the feeling (maybe wrong) that you are looking for someone else to make this decision for you. Or that you are wanting to know God's will FOR SURE in some way. God speaks in whispers to the heart - He doesn't shout at us or demand that we do something. He makes an invitation and then we consider if we feel able to respond to that invitation. Sometimes we just feel an emotional attraction to something, which is not God's call, just our own emotions but sometimes there is a burning or longing that is definitely divine guidance. God will also use our affinities to guide and direct us. If you are unsure about your calling, then I can't suggest strongly enough that you start seeking spiritual direction from either a priest or someone who is trained to help you with this.

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1323130181' post='2345175']
No one has said I should or shouldn't necessarily marry. I'm just imagining in the event that the VD might say I'm not called, as in Mater's case, I wondered if they could tell what I was instead called to. It's only been since it happened to Mater that I have really considered that could happen to me.
[/quote]

I hope that Mater doesn't mind me jumping in here (as I do not know her except for reading what she has written on this open forum and I have no idea the personal relationship you both might have) but I think there is a very natural inclination for people to feel that if a vocation director says you are not called that something "happened to" them. The phrase in and of itself isn't problematic but I think it leads us to believe that something negative and completely out of our control has befallen us. Mater, you may not feel this way right now because of your pain but something hasn't "happened to you" like a hurricane or an earthquake just "happens." God is calling you ever closer to Himself on the greatest adventure you could ever imagine with Him. You are an active participant in that adventure - not just blown about by the winds but dead set on following the path set out for you. I hope you don't mind me saying this - When I read your sad news I did think how graciously you handled it. So in that spirit, I am not meaning to lecture but to buoy up a perspective that might be a little healthier than what I hear above.

Sometimes, in a false sense of the virtues of modesty and humility, we forget that we are also called to be very passionately tenacious about our life with our God, knowing that nothing just happens to us but that we are acting and living in Him, in the mystery of the life of the Trinity right here and now. Every circumstance is used by God for our salvation and our sanctification - to make us holy and completely His in whatever vocation we follow.

In my community's rule it says that "the sisters are to refrain from comparisons of any kind." There are no needs for comparisons between the sisters in Christ here either. I think we can all rest knowing that God is very much alive within us; sustaining us and redeeming us for the mission He has already laid out in front of us and desires to walk with us. Our vocation is to follow Him - no one else.

Edited December 6, 2011 by Sister Marie