Papist Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='kenrockthefirst' timestamp='1323108162' post='2344959'] How are we "dumbing down" the Mass if we use the English phrase, "of the same substance" as opposed to the Latin, "consubstantial?" Are we trying to be elitist? "You're not a real Catholic unless you know what 'consubstantial' means." I would have thought that making the Mass *more* accessible, not less, was a Good Thing. [/quote] Should we not make ourselves more accessible to the Mass, not the Mass more to us. Let us raise ourselves up to the Mass, not bring the Mass down to us. The Liturgy should be the same regardless of the vernacular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrockthefirst Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='Papist' timestamp='1323112348' post='2345011'] Should we not make ourselves more accessible to the Mass, not the Mass more to us. Let us raise ourselves up to the Mass, not bring the Mass down to us. The Liturgy should be the same regardless of the vernacular. [/quote] The logical conclusion of the Mass being the "same" is to revert to Latin, which is undoubtedly what a number of people here would prefer. I'm not saying that's a Bad Thing but let's be honest about where the line of reasoning takes us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='kenrockthefirst' timestamp='1323114475' post='2345035'] The logical conclusion of the Mass being the "same" is to revert to Latin, which is undoubtedly what a number of people here would prefer. I'm not saying that's a Bad Thing but let's be honest about where the line of reasoning takes us. [/quote] You may be surprised. Are you familiar with the late Laszlo Dobszay's opinion on the matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='kenrockthefirst' timestamp='1323114475' post='2345035'] The logical conclusion of the Mass being the "same" is to revert to Latin, which is undoubtedly what a number of people here would prefer. I'm not saying that's a Bad Thing but let's be honest about where the line of reasoning takes us. [/quote] The Masses do not need to be the same, the Liturgies do. I am not the right person to go into discuss this, but the two are not synonymous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah147 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 My local Church forgets to say "and with your spirit" a lot. We're still learning. It would be nice if they provided cards rather than have us flip through the books, which is hard. I picked up a card at the Catholic gift shop so I'll have to bring that next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I forgot "and with your spirit" twice this week. I knew they were coming up and thought "and with your spirit, and with your spirit, and with your spirit" and then I spoke "And also with you." and then I thought "dang it!!!!" lol But I did fine everywhere else, with the aid of a cheat sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 Our diocese released a nice little set of cards to keep in the pews. I don't know if it helped or not because I haven't attended, but it's a good idea in any case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MithLuin Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='LinaSt.Cecilia2772' timestamp='1322712402' post='2343067'] it's weird how i got every other change, except that one. and that one is the shortest and easiest one!!! [/quote] It's because it is very short and automatic. You've been saying it that way for years...and the priest's part hasn't changed, so you get the same prompt as always, but now have to remember the new line rather than say the old, "And also with you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1323128653' post='2345143'] Our diocese released a nice little set of cards to keep in the pews. I don't know if it helped or not because I haven't attended, but it's a good idea in any case. [/quote] We have these, too, but I've noticed they're different in different parishes. The one at my parish doesn't note the striking of our breasts in the Confiteor or the bow during the Creed. It was just the priest and I doing it. But at another church I visited last weekend, the card does note both gestures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 [quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1323129135' post='2345156'] We have these, too, but I've noticed they're different in different parishes. The one at my parish doesn't note the striking of our breasts in the Confiteor or the bow during the Creed. It was just the priest and I doing it. But at another church I visited last weekend, the card does note both gestures. [/quote] If I were to guess, I would say that it's also being ignored in my diocese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted December 5, 2011 Share Posted December 5, 2011 I don't know if it would be fair to say [i]ignored, [/i]per se -- the translation is new and the cards don't say it, so most people have no idea. For what it's worth, even at the parish that had it printed right there, not everyone did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah147 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 (edited) Hey, we didn't do the "my fault" prayer, both weeks of the new Mass! Is that alright? Unless I was so distracted that I didn't realize it? Edited December 6, 2011 by JoyfulLife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 [quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1323129798' post='2345166'] Hey, we didn't do the "my fault" prayer, both weeks of the new Mass! Is that alright? Unless I was so distracted that I didn't realize it? [/quote] Did you guys use the form that goes "Lord Jesus, you came to heal the contrite; Lord have mercy" instead? Because that's alright, too. There are options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 [quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1323129798' post='2345166'] Hey, we didn't do the "my fault" prayer, both weeks of the new Mass! Is that alright? Unless I was so distracted that I didn't realize it? [/quote] [quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1323129952' post='2345168'] Did you guys use the form that goes "Lord Jesus, you came to heal the contrite; Lord have mercy" instead? Because that's alright, too. There are options. [/quote] Technically you can also use the Kyrie for the Penitential Rite, although in my opinion that's a rather bad option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah147 Posted December 6, 2011 Share Posted December 6, 2011 Yeah, we used the alternate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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