My Fault, My Fault, My Most Grieveous Fault

[kenrockthefirst]

Some changes I'm not sure about. I like the "my fault, my fault, my most griveous fault" in the Confiteor, kicking it Old Skool style. "Consubstantial with the Father," though? I get that it might be an important distinction but did "One in Being with the Father" not do it? Or "incarnate of" rather than "born of" the Virgin Mary? In general, though, I like the more formal language, e.g. "chalice" instead of "cup," which adds "weight" to the Mass.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='kenrockthefirst' timestamp='1322760228' post='2343217']
Some changes I'm not sure about. I like the "my fault, my fault, my most griveous fault" in the Confiteor, kicking it Old Skool style. "Consubstantial with the Father," though? I get that it might be an important distinction but did "One in Being with the Father" not do it? Or "incarnate of" rather than "born of" the Virgin Mary? In general, though, I like the more formal language, e.g. "chalice" instead of "cup," which adds "weight" to the Mass.
[/quote]
Greater faithfulness to the original Latin should be enough... Besides that it is much more precise. Incarnate, for instance, is far more theologically meaningful than "born of".

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1322765465' post='2343233']
Greater faithfulness to the original Latin should be enough... Besides that it is much more precise. Incarnate, for instance, is far more theologically meaningful than "born of".
[/quote]

I agree with incarnate. My mother still doesn't understand consubstantial, but I am sure that in a few years it will be as though nothing changed. It will become what we're used to.

I know that the English translation of the Mass was one of the last languages to get "retranslated." French and Spanish for the past years have been much similar to the new translation.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='LinaSt.Cecilia2772' timestamp='1322712402' post='2343067']
it's weird how i got every other change, except that one. and that one is the shortest and easiest one!!!
[/quote]
I think it's because you know to look at your card for long prayers and responses, but not for that.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='LaPetiteSoeur' timestamp='1322766131' post='2343236']
My mother still doesn't understand consubstantial, but I am sure that in a few years it will be as though nothing changed. It will become what we're used to.

[/quote]

That one's pretty easy to explain if you break apart the word for her.

[MissyP89]

"Chalice" kinda bugged me. I feel like in the context of the Last Supper in the upper room, it [i]would [/i]have been a simple cup...

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1322770485' post='2343284']
"Chalice" kinda bugged me. I feel like in the context of the Last Supper in the upper room, it [i]would [/i]have been a simple cup...
[/quote]

Like in Indiana Jones where he chooses the simple wooden cup.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1322597034' post='2342217']

[b]Lord, I am not worthy/that you should enter under my roof,/but only say the word/and my soul shall be healed.[/b]

[/quote]

This is the one thing I really messed up, and once I forgot "And with your Spirit" and said "And also with you", but I kept it together pretty well. I felt bad for my 8 year old, though. She's really, in the last year or two, gotten to memorizing all the responses and last week she looked at me wide-eyed and said "Mom, I'm kinda confused!" It's going to take a little while for us to get it straight, but at least my younger kids will have an easier time of it since they aren't saying many of the responses on their own.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1322765465' post='2343233']
Greater faithfulness to the original Latin should be enough... Besides that it is much more precise. Incarnate, for instance, is far more theologically meaningful than "born of".
[/quote]
True. "Consubstantial" doesn't translate easily into "plain English," but has a precise philosophical/theological meaning that "one in being" does not. "One in being" in English is so vague as to be practically meaningless.

[Socrates]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1322770485' post='2343284']
"Chalice" kinda bugged me. I feel like in the context of the Last Supper in the upper room, it [i]would [/i]have been a simple cup...
[/quote]
How you feel is irrelevant to the truth about this matter. The fact is that the "context of the Last Supper" was the feast of the Passover, the most sacred and solemn meal of the Jews, and would have been a formal religious ceremonial meal for which only the best dishes and such would be used. In fact, certain households would have chalices and dishes reserved only for this sacred feast.

Contrary to popular modern opinion, the Last Supper was not just Jesus casually chowin' down with His homeboys.

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' timestamp='1322775056' post='2343308']

Like in Indiana Jones where he chooses the simple wooden cup.
[/quote]
As is often the case, Hollywood got it wrong.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1322780486' post='2343371']
As is often the case, Hollywood got it wrong.
[/quote]

I never said it was correct. It's just what her post made me think of.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1322780486' post='2343371']
How you feel is irrelevant to the truth about this matter.[/quote]

Gee, thanks. I'll just shut up now.

The Church's decisions are obviously wise and I accept them wholeheartedly. Forgive me for stating an opinion.

[quote]The fact is that the "context of the Last Supper" was the feast of the Passover, the most sacred and solemn meal of the Jews, and would have been a formal religious ceremonial meal for which only the best dishes and such would be used. In fact, certain households would have chalices and dishes reserved only for this sacred feast.
[/quote]

This comment, on the other hand, is actually helpful.

Edited December 1, 2011 by MissyP89

[Amppax]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1322779974' post='2343364']
True. "Consubstantial" doesn't translate easily into "plain English," but has a precise philosophical/theological meaning that "one in being" does not. "One in being" in English is so vague as to be practically meaningless.
[/quote]

and if we are really going to get into this, the original Greek of the creed said "homoousias" (homo = same and ousia = being, essense). Of course, that is what consubstantial says. And it does in one word, unlike the old translation. I like that it is more precise.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1322787708' post='2343449']

and if we are really going to get into this, the original Greek of the creed said "homoousias" (homo = same and ousia = being, essense). Of course, that is what consubstantial says. And it does in one word, unlike the old translation. I like that it is more precise.
[/quote]
If I'm not mistaken, Apotheoun would disagree very strongly that homoousias means the same thing as consubstantial.

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1322769685' post='2343277']

That one's pretty easy to explain if you break apart the word for her.
[/quote]

I'm going to use my Latin knowledge from high school and explain it once I'm home again.