Forgiveness

[Jaime]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1322773715' post='2343302']
Since you claim to be a Church scholar, then you would know that whenever a person decides to ask a genuine question they should receive a genuine answer irrespective of how they behaved previously. How many times did Jesus say you should forgive someone?
[/quote]

First I never claimed to be a scholar. While I didn't ask to be made one here, I do take it much more seriously than you do. You claim to be of the cross. Never once have I made a condescending snarky post about whether or not you are of the cross or not. But let's move on to the "genuine question" that has you soooooooo up in arms! Here's the OP.

[quote]Let's say that I punched "Jamie" in the face. "Jamie" could say that we just had a misunderstanding and forgive me. And then I would be forgiven right? But he would have to be the one that did the forgiving right? If "Jamie" refused to forgive me and "Nihil" told me that he forgave me for punching "Jaime" in the face, then I wouldn't really be forgiven would I?[/quote]

Its a question involving punching me in the face...If this is what you consider a "genuine question" mark of the cross(if you really are of the cross), you should perhaps pose it on another site that shares your concern. Perhaps there they can help you and Southern California Guy (if he really is from southern california and is in fact a dude) find a genuine response to what you consider a genuine question.

Scratch that I'll give you one.


[quote][quote]Let's say that I punched "Jamie" in the face. "Jamie" could say that we just had a misunderstanding and forgive me. And then I would be forgiven right? But he would have to be the one that did the forgiving right? If "Jamie" refused to forgive me and "Nihil" told me that he forgave me for punching "Jaime" in the face, then I wouldn't really be forgiven would I?[/quote][/quote]

If you punched me in the face, there would be no need for forgiveness. because the last guy who punched me in the face, I genuinely beat the piss out of him.
There. That is about as genuine as I can get.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1322899135' post='2344006']

First I never claimed to be a scholar. While I didn't ask to be made one here, I do take it much more seriously than you do.
[/quote]
Oh but you did. Maybe you've forgotten but. In posts aimed at me when I first started writing here you reminded me a number of times of your Church scholarship and my apparent lack of theological knowledge. And my comment did not insinuate that you didn't have one, I was just reminding you about what you would have learnt and be expected to apply.

[quote]You claim to be of the cross. Never once have I made a condescending snarky post about whether or not you are of the cross or not. But let's move on to the "genuine question" that has you soooooooo up in arms! Here's the OP.[/quote]
My claim to be of the cross means that I carry one, just like many people. The fact that saints are called of the cross is for a different reason, therefore I understand your confusion. The forum doesn't allow name changes and since people often have Lol names, I didn't think it out of place. I do not consider myself saintly or educated. I'm a struggler trying to be a catholic, but often failing. But I take my religion very seriously that's why I stuck my neck out when I saw what appeared to be unchristian behaviour, knowing I might become the target of peoples ire.

[quote]Its a question involving punching me in the face...If this is what you consider a "genuine question" mark of the cross(if you really are of the cross), you should perhaps pose it on another site that shares your concern. Perhaps there they can help you and Southern California Guy (if he really is from southern california and is in fact a dude) find a genuine response to what you consider a genuine question.


[/quote]
The bit in brackets just invalidated your previous statement.
I never saw anything wrong with his allegory. It never appeared insulting to you just as I never intended any insult. I took it as a lol! About the whole thread, I was just a little incensed at all the flack the guy was getting when He was being quite civil. He was even ignoring barbs and insults to continue the discussion. The other site you refer to doesn't have any difficulty at the moment. The person you question is quite sincere. I don't understand your questioning of his local or his sex or reference to another site. Are you telling me I'm unwelcome here!

[quote]Scratch that I'll give you one.[/quote]
Sorry, I don't get that!



[quote]If you punched me in the face, there would be no need for forgiveness. because the last guy who punched me in the face, I genuinely beat the piss out of him.


There. That is about as genuine as I can get.[/quote]
I don't get the purpose of this line either are you boasting about your skill with the fists? Seems a mite childish! It seams unrelated to the thread! I wouldn't attempt to punch you in the face. I've never been in a situation where a fight is likely to occur. I don't have any skill or propensity to violence. I'm quite timid! I have a bit of a temper in the word department but never physical, my good luck I suppose.

Bringing things back into proportion my post was just intended as a reminder, albeit a little abrupt maybe. But I was hoping the guy would be treated a little better on the forum as a result of my barb. If it was over the top then I apologise and ask for your forgiveness.

Edited December 3, 2011 by Mark of the Cross

[Jaime]

[quote]
Oh but you did. Maybe you've forgotten but. In posts aimed at me when I first started writing here you reminded me a number of times of your Church scholarship and my apparent lack of theological knowledge. And my comment did not insinuate that you didn't have one, I was just reminding you about what you would have learnt and be expected to apply.[/quote]

Fabulous. Show me when I've ever called myself a scholar and bragged about it. Give it a shot because there's been more than a few of you scamps that have claimed this and haven't been able to back it up.


[quote]

My claim to be of the cross means that I carry one, just like many people. The fact that saints are called of the cross is for a different reason, therefore I understand your confusion. The forum doesn't allow name changes and since people often have Lol names, I didn't think it out of place. I do not consider myself saintly or educated. I'm a struggler trying to be a catholic, but often failing. But I take my religion very seriously that's why I stuck my neck out when I saw what appeared to be unchristian behaviour, knowing I might become the target of peoples ire..[/quote]

my point was you actually are making a claim in your screen name and I haven't had cause to question it. And you don't have to explain it. I don't really care.

[quote]I never saw anything wrong with his allegory. It never appeared insulting to you just as I never intended any insult. I took it as a lol! About the whole thread, I was just a little incensed at all the flack the guy was getting when He was being quite civil. He was even ignoring barbs and insults to continue the discussion. The other site you refer to doesn't have any difficulty at the moment. The person you question is quite sincere. I don't understand your questioning of his local or his sex or reference to another site. Are you telling me I'm unwelcome here![/quote]

You didn't see it as an insult? He wasn't punching you in the face. You got a little incensed that he wasn't taken seriously? I got a little annoyed with you throwing my church scholar tag around.



[quote]I don't get the purpose of this line either are you boasting about your skill with the fists? Seems a mite childish! It seams unrelated to the thread! I wouldn't attempt to punch you in the face. I've never been in a situation where a fight is likely to occur. I don't have any skill or propensity to violence. I'm quite timid! I have a bit of a temper in the word department but never physical, my good luck I suppose.
[/quote]

you asked for a genuine response to Socalguy original post. His original post was about what would happen if he punched me in the face. I gave you a sincere and genuine answer to what the result would probably be.

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1322947919' post='2344155']

Fabulous. Show me when I've ever called myself a scholar and bragged about it. Give it a shot because there's been more than a few of you scamps that have claimed this and haven't been able to back it up.
[/quote]
Just checked, lucky threads only go back to Jan 2011! But then I suppose you know that. Is there another Jaime known as hot stuff? interesting how there are others who accused you! And I'm a scamp am I? How charitable of you. [i]scamp= A mischievous, cheeky pest. A mischief-maker. [/i]
How old are you?


[quote]my point was you actually are making a claim in your screen name and I haven't had cause to question it. And you don't have to explain it. I don't really care.


[/quote]
There are a number of people using saint names. Are they claiming to be saints? And I wouldn't expect that you would care.
[quote]You didn't see it as an insult? He wasn't punching you in the face. You got a little incensed that he wasn't taken seriously? I got a little annoyed with you throwing my church scholar tag around.



[/quote]
No, I didn't, he was talking about forgiveness and using it as an example. If there was a barb in it, it was a very lame one, at which most people would laugh. And I didn't throw your church scholar tag around. It's just that I expect people who wear them to behave like one. And you certainly don't. Your interpretation that I was questioning if you had one is just your over reaction like the rest of your post.


[quote]you asked for a genuine response to Socalguy original post. His original post was about what would happen if he punched me in the face. I gave you a sincere and genuine answer to what the result would probably be.[/quote]
It appeared to me more about forgiveness if he did punch you. One has to sin before asking for forgiveness. His example clearly went on to discuss forgiveness which you seem to overlook. Your alteration to what would happen if I tried it, seemed more like a school yard reaction.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Mark of the Cross

[Jaime]

[quote]Just checked, lucky threads only go back to Jan 2011! But then I suppose you know that. Is there another Jaime known as hot stuff? interesting how there are others who accused you! And I'm a scamp am I? How charitable of you. [i]scamp= A mischievous, cheeky pest. A mischief-maker. [/i]
How old are you?[/quote]

What I knew is that no matter how far you go back, you won't find anything to back up your claims. The appropriate response would be an apology for making a false statement about me. But then you would be showing more character than the other little scamps that have claimed the same bs.


[quote]And I didn't throw your church scholar tag around. It's just that I expect people who wear them to behave like one.[/quote]

Well Gee Mark, how sad I am to disappoint you. What I said about Socalguy was that he's made a lot of posts where he didn't care to learn anything. He just wanted to rant. He didn't care to listen. I stand by that opinion (which is shared by more than a few folks around here) If you want to support that behavior, feel free. If this is the behavior you prefer on online forums well good luck with that.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1322440445' post='2341326']


Perhaps hostile is too harsh a word - still seemed a bit snarky to me "no poo, Sherlock" - sounds like a put down kinda like "boy aren't you stupid nunsense!", but then what do I know?
[/quote]

Everytime I've heard that expression before coming here, the phrase is definitely a put down and means the definition you gave it. LilRed apparentally uses it differently.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1323000025' post='2344332']

Everytime I've heard that expression before coming here, the phrase is definitely a put down and means the definition you gave it. LilRed apparentally uses it differently.
[/quote]

ssshhhhh.....don't wake the sleeping giant!

It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who read it that way, but I've let it go since Red said she didn't mean anything by it. And besides, she said people say it to their friends, so that must mean she considers me a friend (I can dream can't I?)

[tinytherese]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1323000345' post='2344333']

ssshhhhh.....don't wake the sleeping giant!

It's nice to know that I'm not the only one who read it that way, but I've let it go since Red said she didn't mean anything by it. And besides, she said people say it to their friends, so that must mean she considers me a friend (I can dream can't I?)
[/quote]

Oh I know. I was just bothered that by the phrase none-the-less and we can't assume that everyone interprets phrases the same way that we do whether on the internet or not. (I am guilty of doing the same thing, so I'm not trying to pick on Red or anyone for that matter.)

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1322773715' post='2343302']
Since you claim to be a Church scholar, then you would know that whenever a person decides to ask a genuine question they should receive a genuine answer irrespective of how they behaved previously. [b]How many times did Jesus say you should forgive someone?[/b]
[/quote]
[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1322944110' post='2344136']
[b]Oh but you did. Maybe you've forgotten but. In posts aimed at me when I first started writing here you reminded me a number of times of your Church scholarship and my apparent lack of theological knowledge. [/b]
[/quote]

...maybe you should take Jesus' advice and forgive Jaime for this already.... (if he actually did this or not, or you might have imagined it, it doesn't matter... i just find it ironic in a thread on "forgiveness" you are bringing up past hurts, not to let by gones be by gones, but to attack him...)

..not picking on you, just found it kind of sad....

as for what you are trying to correct, i guess we all can be a little set off by socalguy, have you read his threads?? its like he brings up a subject, people address it with precise and detailed answers, and its like he doesn't read those posts!!!

...take a look at the "celibacy causes gay priests thread" and then read aloysius' excellent posts... socalguy washes right over them... and continues to rant about it.... makes some of us go

so, before you come in here judging the attitude some members might have towards socalguys thread, you might take a look at his history.... and then re-read the first post of this thread... seems a might bit trollish to me and to a lot of others and not genuine at all.....

and i'm not trying to pick on socalguys' threads... not all of them are trollish.....i really enjoy reading his threads on plants, trees and the fruits he grows...

Edited December 4, 2011 by dominicansoul

[Lil Red]

[quote name='tinytherese' timestamp='1323000025' post='2344332']

Everytime I've heard that expression before coming here, the phrase is definitely a put down and means the definition you gave it. LilRed apparentally uses it differently.[/quote]
I do, and I've already explained that.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1323005823' post='2344350']

...maybe you should take Jesus' advice and forgive Jaime for this already.... (if he actually did this or not, or you might have imagined it, it doesn't matter... i just find it ironic in a thread on "forgiveness" you are bringing up past hurts, not to let by gones be by gones, but to attack him...)

..not picking on you, just found it kind of sad....

as for what you are trying to correct, i guess we all can be a little set off by socalguy, have you read his threads?? its like he brings up a subject, people address it with precise and detailed answers, and its like he doesn't read those posts!!!

...take a look at the "celibacy causes gay priests thread" and then read aloysius' excellent posts... socalguy washes right over them... and continues to rant about it.... makes some of us go

so, before you come in here judging the attitude some members might have towards socalguys thread, you might take a look at his history.... and then re-read the first post of this thread... seems a might bit trollish to me and to a lot of others and not genuine at all.....

and i'm not trying to pick on socalguys' threads... not all of them are trollish.....i really enjoy reading his threads on plants, trees and the fruits he grows...
[/quote]

My threads are not trollish!! But relax..... I magnanimously forgive you guys -- since this thread is about forgiveness!

Edited December 4, 2011 by southern california guy

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1323005823' post='2344350']

...maybe you should take Jesus' advice and forgive Jaime for this already.... (if he actually did this or not, or you might have imagined it, it doesn't matter... i just find it ironic in a thread on "forgiveness" you are bringing up past hurts, not to let by gones be by gones, but to attack him...)

..not picking on you, just found it kind of sad....

as for what you are trying to correct, i guess we all can be a little set off by socalguy, have you read his threads?? its like he brings up a subject, people address it with precise and detailed answers, and its like he doesn't read those posts!!!

...take a look at the "celibacy causes gay priests thread" and then read aloysius' excellent posts... socalguy washes right over them... and continues to rant about it.... makes some of us go

so, before you come in here judging the attitude some members might have towards socalguys thread, you might take a look at his history.... and then re-read the first post of this thread... seems a might bit trollish to me and to a lot of others and not genuine at all.....

and i'm not trying to pick on socalguys' threads... not all of them are trollish.....i really enjoy reading his threads on plants, trees and the fruits he grows...
[/quote]
Nice post! Props for it
Firstly, I thought it quite clear what I was aiming at with my post. And that is that it should not matter how a person behaves. If they ask a genuine question and are not trolling, then you have the option to not reply if you don't desire or to give them a genuine answer. Just like what you do! And I stand by that opinion.
If I recall some time ago SCG and I, had some on going disagreement on a thread. It ended in light hearted humour and is forgotten as far as I am concerned. In other words I forgave him. And of recent times he appears quite happy to post friendly posts. I have not read the posts you refer to, so I am unaffected by them. But I would understand your frustration at having seen Aloysius posts go to waste. Not to worry though, many of us get a lot out of Aloysius' posts, I certainly do.
Now you ask me about forgiveness. I bring the following to your attention.

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1322944110' post='2344136']
If it was over the top then I apologise and ask for your forgiveness.
[/quote]

I was kind of hoping that would calm things, we would all be friends and that would be the end of it. But alas the response I got....
[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1322947919' post='2344155']

Give it a shot because there's been more than a few of[b] you scamps[/b] that have claimed this and haven't been able to back it up.


[/quote]
And again
[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1322984934' post='2344311']

But then you would be showing more character than the [b]other[/b] [b]little scamps[/b] that have claimed the same[b] bs.[/b]

[/quote]
Now this second time and this post has been given props by 3 mods. The last time I looked, personal insults were against forum rules. That's prolly why I got a bit irritated.
[quote]Personal Attacks
A post or comment that has nothing to do with the topic, but is specifically meant to upset or criticize another person or group of people.[/quote]

As for forgiving Jaime. Since threads of two years ago are no longer available and I have no proof, then I must withdraw the claim and apologise. However I only brought it up in regard to a physical threat that appeared like a child's boast not that I wasn't prepared to forgive. As far as I am concerned I have no issues with anybody and am ready to make friends.

[quote]..not picking on you, just found it kind of sad....[/quote]
Ditto. I am too. Firstly I was just attempting to be Christian but it turned sour on me. For anybody, Jaime included, I apologise for any misunderstanding. But I still stand by the view that no matter how badly a person behaves they should be treated with sincerity when they ask a genuine question, especially expected of Church scholars.

Peace and blessings at Christmas be with you all.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Mark of the Cross

[Nihil Obstat]

Mark of the Cross is in all likelihood the most sincere person I've ever had the pleasure of interacting with over the internet.

[MIKolbe]

dude, friendship IS magic!!

[Jaime]

Mark I can't say that you don't confuse the heck out of me sometimes. To consider it a personal attack when I call you a scamp but think I need to lighten up when someone talks about punching me in the face is really distorted imo.

[quote]As for forgiving Jaime. Since threads of two years ago are no longer available and I have no proof, then I must withdraw the claim and apologise. However I only brought it up in regard to a physical threat that appeared like a child's boast not that I wasn't prepared to forgive. As far as I am concerned I have no issues with anybody and am ready to make friends.[/quote]

If you want, you can ask dUSt on how to go back further. If there's a way he'd know. If you can, go back to when I first joined and see if you can find any times that I have boasted about my scholar tag. There have been times that I've defended it when I've been attacked but I have never led off with "well as a scholar" or anything that could resemble that. That being said, I'll accept your apology and give you kudos for having more character than others.

For the record Mark, I don't have any problem giving people a second third fourth or fifth chance. If someone is sincere, I will give them any help I can. I don't for a moment believe that this is a sincere thread by Socalguy. I think it starts off passive aggressive and doesn't move from there. There are people on this phorum that I've been at odds with and we've reconciled our differences. Ask Loungedaddy. He and I used to go toe to toe all the time. Today I don't think its possible for me to have more respect for him than I do.