Religious (Personal) Experience

[stevil]

This is a post I made on an Atheist forum a while ago. We often have many theist visitors and some of them cite a Religious Experience as their proof of god.

So I was wondering what this was. Even though we have many ex-theists on our Atheist forum, they all seemed as clueless as I.

Here's my post

[color=black][font=Verdana][size="3"]I am interested to know what a religious experience is.

Who on this forum has had one?
What was it like?
Did it give you any insights to your religion or to a different religion?
How detailed was the experience?
How do you know you can trust it, e.g. know what the source was, know that it wasn't deceptive, know that it came from a particular god or a particular faith?
Was it about something else other than a god?
Does anyone these days have a religious experience entailing the Greek gods? Zeus, Athena etc?
Did it make you convert?
Do you still think about it?

How common are these? Does everyone at your church have one or do only a special few?
How many religious experiences do individual people have?
Do these become more frequent the higher up the religious hierarchy you become?
Have these always been common events or have these become more popular?
Are these confined to one religion or do all religions have them?
Is there peer pressure to have one?
Do you know if people lie about having one so that they feel special within the group or so that they don't feel they are the only one missing out?[/size][/font][/color]

[sixpence]

First of all, I would say that I attribute positive "religious experiences" to the Holy Spirit.

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Who on this forum has had one? [/size][/font][/color]
[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Me, I can't speak for others[/size][/font][/color], but I would expect most people

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]What was it like?[/size][/font][/color]
[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]They can vary; some times they involve more emotion- peace/joy/love, other times they involve more knowledge/epiphany type stuff[/size][/font][/color], or else a general awareness of being in God's presence

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Did it give you any insights to your religion or to a different religion?[/size][/font][/color]
Yes, the world in general, including my religion

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]How detailed was the experience?[/size][/font][/color]
Emotion- not detailed; sudden knowledge- more detailed

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]How do you know you can trust it, e.g. know what the source was, know that it wasn't deceptive, know that it came from a particular god or a particular faith?[/size][/font][/color]
This is a bit tricky, but I know that I cannot cause MYSELF to "feel the love of God" or to be inspired to greater knowledge...otherwise I would do it all the time since it is super amesome! In terms of who/what to attribute it to and certainty? I will be honest, it is difficult. I think everyone who has experienced some of these things tends to have zero doubt about the cause of the experience while it is actually occurring, but then later experience some level of doubt...sometimes out of humility.

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Was it about something else other than a god?[/size][/font][/color]
No, as it is generally obvious during religious experiences that everything is about God. haha

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Does anyone these days have a religious experience entailing the Greek gods? Zeus, Athena etc?[/size][/font][/color]
[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Not that I know of?[/size][/font][/color] I do not think that even when people believe in these gods that anyone looked to have a "personal relationship" with them.

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Did they make you convert?[/size][/font][/color]
No- I was always Catholic in name; Yes- They inspire me to continue in my faith, and to strive to grow deeper in it!

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Do you still think about them?[/size][/font][/color]
[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Of course

How common are these? Does everyone at your church have one or do only a special few?[/size][/font][/color]
I do not know; people tend not to blab about them for three reasons; 1. they are very personal, 2. not wanting to appear to be bragging about it, 3. concern that others (even within your religion) will think your off your rocker LOL

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]How many religious experiences do individual people have?[/size][/font][/color]
I don't know, I expect it varies; but I'll say this... I had a bit of a crisis last month when I suddenly stopped feeling like I was in God's presence out of nowhere, and I kind of freaked out, but since then I have learned that this happens to most people eventually

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Do these become more frequent the higher up the religious hierarchy you become?[/size][/font][/color]
I don't really know; I would guess that the closer to God and more open to God one becomes, the more often one will experience Him. Unfortunately, closeness with God may not always correlate with "rank"

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Have these always been common events or have these become more popular?[/size][/font][/color]
[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]huh?[/size][/font][/color]

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Are these confined to one religion or do all religions have them?[/size][/font][/color]
I think everyone, if they are of the right disposition, can experience the Holy Spirit; He just waits for us to be ready, He does not push Himself on people who resist.

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Is there peer pressure to have one?[/size][/font][/color]
I don't think so since not many people discuss them too much (at least for Catholics, I don't know about other religions)

[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Do you know if people lie about having one so that they feel special within the group or so that they don't feel they are the only one missing out?[/size][/font][/color]
I doubt it; actually, recently I attended a series at my parish and after the talk each week we broke up into small groups to discuss whatever the topic was (this was actually the first time I had shared any of my experiences with anyone! ) Out of about 8 people, one person freely admitted that they did not think they had ever experienced the Holy Spirit, I do not think they felt pressured to invent one at all.

Other comments: I do not think that these experience can ever be used as proof of God to another person, you cannot "show" them your experience, you can only tell them. In some sense, they can only be used to "prove" it to oneself. For me, I can only come to the conclusion that I am 1) genuinely experiencing God 2) insane 3) sane but cannot trust in my own senses/experiences. I choose to believe 1). 3) Is just scary; if I cannot trust my own experiences to tell me what reality is...what can I trust? *thinks of the matrix* ahhh!!!!!!!

Hope this was helpful!

[Papist]

The answer is subjective to how one defines "religious" and "experience".

Religious can refer to divinity, something holy or sacred. This can include believing a higher being or power. Also, keep in mind that religions differ in their set of beliefs.

Experience is something that one goes through, something that occurs in his life. The experience is often subjective in nature. This makes it difficult to be objective about personal experiences since they involve feelings and thoughts instead of entirely being based on fact or evidence.

Many people point to genuine experiences from God as evidence that He exists. People around the world claim to have personally experienced the supernatural. They claim divine healing, answered prayer, and other miraculous phenomena.

The phenomena happening or not really does not matter. What matters is that the person who experienced the phenomena believes it happen. So the real question is, what or who is the source of the phenomenal experience? For example, Our Lady of Lourdes. The Virgin Mary appeared and spoke to Bernadette Soubirous while others around her did not see or hear the Virgin Mary. With anyone having such experiences, they should not jump to conclusions and thoroughly examine the experiences, as the Catholic Church did with Bernadette.

Also, the way I see it is that for the non-believer, the experience is required to be more obvious and not so subtle compared to the believer.

I don’t know if this answers your question, but I hope it helps.

[MissyP89]

I want to touch specifically on one of your questions ... yes, people [i]do [/i]still have experiences with "other" gods (Zeus, etc.).

Prior to my coming back to the Catholic Church, I was involved in the occult and had several friends who identified as Pagan. This includes Wicca, shamanism, Asatru (druidism), you get the idea.

Most of them had a god or goddess with whom they had a particular affinity. For example, one of my friends served Hecate, and had quite a few experiences where she either appeared on her own or was called during a ritual.

Another friend of mine worships Cernunnos. One more dealt with Lilith on a fairly regular basis until his own conversion.

So yes, while followers of those other pantheons are rare, they do exist and are have actually gained popularity over the past 30 years.

[stevil]

Thanks for your responses so far, this is interesting.

With regards to my question "[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Have these always been common events or have these become more popular?"[/size][/font][/color]
[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]I probably should have said "[/size][/font][/color][color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Have these always been common events or have these become more frequent?"[/size][/font][/color]
I am just wondering if they are more frequent now days than, say 100 years ago?
But I guess you would only know if people from the past had documented their experiences.

[Papist]

[quote name='stevil' timestamp='1322070681' post='2339828']
Thanks for your responses so far, this is interesting.

With regards to my question "[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Have these always been common events or have these become more popular?"[/size][/font][/color]
[color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]I probably should have said "[/size][/font][/color][color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]Have these always been common events or have these become more frequent?"[/size][/font][/color]
I am just wondering if they are more frequent now days than, say 100 years ago?
But I guess you would only know if people from the past had documented their experiences.
[/quote]
I think they might be more frequently proclaimed[not really authentic] in the ultra-touchy-feeling world.

[Adrestia]

These are very subjective questions; my answers only apply to me.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]I am interested to know what a religious experience is.[/font]

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]Who on this forum has had one?[/font]
I have.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]What was it like?[/font]
I was simultaneously scared, relieved, annoyed and encouraged.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]Did it give you any insights to your religion or to a different religion?[/font]
The effect it had on me could be compared to someone pinching my arm to make sure I'm awake or letting me know that they are there.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]How detailed was the experience?[/font]
I have no idea what you mean.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]How do you know you can trust it, e.g. know what the source was, know that it wasn't deceptive, know that it came from a particular god or a particular faith?[/font]
In my case, the experiences were confirmed by 3rd parties who had no idea that I believed that I had received a message from God.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]Was it about something else other than a god?[/font]
In my case, I felt a pulling on my heart to say something to someone else - they were people that I either barely knew or didn't know at all. (I'm not the kind of person that wants to get into other people's personal business.) I knew they was from God because I asked Him. The messages were for the other people, so I can't tell you exactly what it was about for them, but they were stunned to hear the words coming from my mouth and thanked me.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]Does anyone these days have a religious experience entailing the Greek gods? Zeus, Athena etc?[/font]
I have no idea.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]Did it make you convert?[/font]
No. My faith came before the experiences.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]Do you still think about it?[/font]
Yes.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]How common are these? Does everyone at your church have one or do only a special few?[/font]
I think it's common, but we don't keep track.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]How many religious experiences do individual people have?[/font]
I have no idea.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]Do these become more frequent the higher up the religious hierarchy you become?[/font]
I doubt it.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]Have these always been common events or have these become more frequent?[/font]
Over what time period? I would guess that they are less frequent than centuries ago, but more frequent than a decade ago... but it is just a guess.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]Are these confined to one religion or do all religions have them?[/font]
I'd guess all.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]Is there peer pressure to have one?[/font]
Not among most Catholics, but I think there can be among Pentecostal groups.

[font=courier new,courier,monospace]Do you know if people lie about having one so that they feel special within the group or so that they don't feel they are the only one missing out?[/font]
People lie about all kinds of things. Why not this?

[MarysLittleFlower]

I don't really talk about spiritual experiences anymore, (not that I have them often or anything out of the ordinary compared to other Catholics).. but I think for others here, including myself, it's always related to Jesus, and the person sort of 'recognizes' Him, there is no doubt about it maybe being a figure from another religion. Most of the experiences have something to do with experiencing His love and mercy. Only a few people are given "messages" they are usually saints but not always (they do always live a holy life, or at least live a holy life after the messages). There are many Saints who have had spiritual experiences and received messages, I can give you some examples: St Padre Pio, St Faustina, St Gemma Galgani, St John Vianney.. if you google them, you can read about their stories many of them saw Jesus or Mary, or Angels, etc. Most people don't receive these types of experiences (and we should never ever seek them) because we haven't been purified enough, or they would just make us proud, etc, they're always given to the humble. I personally have never had anything happen out of the ordinary, but I have felt God's presence especially in the Eucharist. Actually I used to be Protestant before I was Catholic, and while I was Protestant I (erroneously, because they don't have priests or the same beliefs on this) believed that Jesus is literally (not only spiritually or symbolically) present in my Communion also, but I didn't really experience there what I did in the Catholic Church... that to me suggests that it's something more than my own feelings, now. Of course as Catholics, we believe that Jesus is really present in Communion (the Eucharist), in the Catholic Church. In all the ways that Catholics might experience God's presence, this would be number one, perhaps.

As for knowing if you can trust the experience or not, there are ways to discern, usually with the help of a priest. I read that it's important how the person feels afterwards, not just during. If after they feel peace and joy, and if they receive some sort of a grace (greater love for God, for neighbour, etc) that's a very good sign. There's no doubt about it being Jesus though and not Buddha or another religious figure, as I said.

Some people can also feel Mary's presence, though she's fully human, but she's our Mother spiritually and we ask her for prayers.

These experiences are not why I converted, but they did help. I used to be kind of agnostic/unsure/unpracticing Eastern Orthodox, then I decided I believe in Christ and became Protestant, and then later on I became Catholic (having realized that some of my beliefs were not in accordance with Scripture and the early Church teachings). Yes, sometimes I think about these experiences or remember them but that's not why I believe, I just found them encouraging. I don't think they are rare: visions, etc, that is rare.. feeling Jesus' presence at church or during prayer or in the Eucharist, I think many Catholics have had this at some point if they truly believe and understand their faith. There are stories of people who did not believe and this sort of experience made them convert: for example: [url="http://ministryvalues.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1007&Itemid=125"]http://ministryvalue...1007&Itemid=125[/url]

To answer some of your other questions, there are no "rules" about who gets this or not, it doesn't matter if you're a little child or the Pope, - God is the one who decides who to give this too, it's a gift, not something we can seek or earn or deserve. There is a story I read about a little girl who was only 4 years old (she is called Little Nellie of Holy God) and she lived a very holy life, saw Jesus, and understood truths of the faith that many adults don't even understand. Her body is entirely incorrupt.

No, there is no peer pressure to have these experiences.. it's a gift. In fact, feeling nothing yet still believing is considered a great grace by the Catholic Church, so feelings are not considered anything except gifts of encouragement and consolations. They don't make us holy. Faith and following God despite our feelings: that is what makes us grow. I don't think that Catholics would lie about these experiences, because again feelings are not emphasized in Catholicism as much as in some other religions, and generally people don't even speak of them. I've only spoken about this in detail to people very close to me or to my priest, this wouldn't be the topic of casual conversation in a large group of acquaitances.

Hope that helps God bless.

Edited December 4, 2011 by MarysLittleFlower

[MithLuin]

[i][color=black][font=Verdana][size=3]I am interested to know what a religious experience is.[/size][/font][/color][/i]

Like most experiences, it's difficult to describe to someone who has not shared it. I don't know what it's like to be in outer space, for instance. A virgin doesn't know what sex will be like. Etc. So, for someone who has never had a brush with the supernatural, this would be...difficult to relate.


[i]Who on this forum has had one?[/i]

I have.

[i]What was it like?[/i]

Ummmm...hard to say? Definitely one of those moments were you say OH! and the whole world shifts into greater clarity. But that doesn't really speak to my experience, either, so....

[i]Did it give you any insights to your religion or to a different religion?[/i]

Yes. (My own; I was raised Catholic) Quite a bit of a paradigm shift; rather than trying to fit the words of the Bible to my worldview, I realized I should be modifying my worldview to fit God's. As an example of what that meant practically speaking, I remember picking up a [i]Star Trek[/i] novel and reading the blurb on the back not long after, and going...oh...I get it. Before hand, I wouldn't have seen that as clearly.

[i]How detailed was the experience?[/i]

Not like an entire conversation, if that's what you mean.

[i]How do you know you can trust it, e.g. know what the source was, know that it wasn't deceptive, know that it came from a particular god or a particular faith?[/i]

That is a tough question. At the time, you just know. I mean, how do you know you love your mother? It's that kind of question - too overwhelming not to give a simplistic answer to. But I was staring at the Eucharist during Adoration, so it's not like I was going to get confused and not recognize that this was all from Jesus.

[i]Was it about something else other than a god?[/i]

I'm not sure I understand this question. I mean, Life the Universe and Everything would fall under the category 'about God', so even if it's about someone's personal life, it's still about God.

[i]Does anyone these days have a religious experience entailing the Greek gods? Zeus, Athena etc?[/i]

I do not have any personal knowledge of this, so I couldn't say. If their cult is completely dead, I can't imagine anyone would be seeking out any connection to them, so it would seem unlikely.

[i]Did it make you convert?[/i]

I was already Catholic, but yes, I consider it a 'conversion experience' - it certainly made me a more *sincere* Catholic. I would consider that, after that point, if I were ever to turn my back on my faith, I'd know for certain sure what it is I'm walking away from. Before hand I might have been...confused.

[i]Do you still think about it?[/i]

Not daily or anything, but yes, certainly. I could, for instance, tell you that the experience I mentioned above occurred on the first weekend of February in 2000, and that Fr. David Engo was preaching that retreat.

[i]How common are these? Does everyone at your church have one or do only a special few?[/i]

You know, I don't know. Some groups seem more comfortable discussing this sort of thing than others. I guess if someone is expected to give a witness or testimony to how they came to the faith, it isn't unusual to hear of one of these experiences in the conversion story. But then, I've heard plenty of conversion stories that don't mention anything like this at all. I could hazard a guess that ease of discussing these experiences is more common in Evangelical Christian communities and the Charismatic Renewal within the Catholic Church.

[i]How many religious experiences do individual people have?[/i]

Completely varies. For some people, this is a fairly regular occurrence. There's a whole language to discuss different types of experiences - for instance, an interior locution is when you hear a voice, but do not experience any sort of vision. For me personally, I have very few. Mostly just normal run-of-the-mill prayer.

[i]Do these become more frequent the higher up the religious hierarchy you become?[/i]

I'd say this is independent of the hierarchy (in the Catholic Church). Those who have an abundance of these experiences are called mystics. It is true that the last pope, John Paul II, was reportedly a mystic. [I don't know the details myself, of course.] But it's hardly a qualification to become a bishop, and many lay people have what you would consider religious experiences.

[i]Have these always been common events or have these become more [frequent]?[/i]

Hard to say how frequent they were at any point in time, but they've been reported in the lives of the saints throughout Christian history. So....it's not a new development or anything. As an example: Br. Pacificus' vision of St. Francis' throne in heaven which he saw while St. Francis was in prayer.

[i]Are these confined to one religion or do all religions have them?[/i]

I wouldn't think they are limited to Christianity, though no doubt people in different faiths use a different vocabulary to explain their experiences.

[i]Is there peer pressure to have one?[/i]

Not in my experience. With one exception: being 'slain in the Spirit' happens after a person has hands laid on them, so if there is an audience then it might be expected that the person will fall down when the hands are laid on them. Of course, I've been the odd one out who watched every single person before me fall down and then...nothing happened . So, I wouldn't call it very strong peer pressure, but an event like that where there is a very clear expectation of time/place and a visible sign that something has happened...sure, I can see that being called peer pressure.

[i]Do you know if people lie about having one so that they feel special within the group or so that they don't feel they are the only one missing out?[/i]

When I've discussed this sort of thing with people, most of the time it's been with a group of people who know each other very well and have discussed faith topics before. So...sharing what you have or have not experienced reflects the trust for the group. I have not gotten the impression that anyone was 'faking' to show off, but perhaps in some situations someone would (as you say, to feel special or not be the odd man out). Rather, I have seen people hesitate to share and hold back from discussing any such experience at all, likely because a lack of trust or relationship with the other members of the group. Some people also get frustrated by the inability to put it into words, so they rely on their audience to know what they are talking about.



Well, I hope that helps in some way. I've tried to limit my answers to my own direct experiences (with the exceptions of questions of history, which should be clear). If I were to include experiences others have shared with me, I could give more varied examples. For instance, I know people who speak in tongues and have had vivid/prophetic dreams where they spoke with God.

Edited December 5, 2011 by MithLuin

[Basilisa Marie]

Edit: Here we go. No more HTML craziness.

Who on this forum has had one?
Me! I've had a couple of strong ones. But I'll stick with my first "real" one.

What was it like?
Deeply intuitive, astonishing clarity, and because of both of these, emotional. But emotions were more my response to having an experience, and not really part of the isolated experience in itself.

Did it give you any insights to your religion or to a different religion?
The big "message" or "point" of my experience was a profound peace in God, to not be anxious about loads of things, to calm down and "be" with God. Particularly, mine happened during Adoration, so it promptly relieved me of the notion that Adoration was for old people and boring.

How detailed was the experience?
I can't say it was detailed, because I didn't have any sensory experiences. My experience was pretty much all internal. It was a very big picture realization. Like, when you're in the shower, you can pick out all the individual jets of water hitting your head, but there is an overall sensation that overshadows all of the individual ones. The sense of peace was like the shower, and the implications of it were like the individual jets.

How do you know you can trust it, e.g. know what the source was, know that it wasn't deceptive, know that it came from a particular god or a particular faith?
I knew it was Catholic because it occurred midst a very uniquely Catholic prayer exercise. It sort of confirmed an existence of an all-powerful deity that desired a personal relationship with each person. I have a friend who had a religious experience with the Book of Mormon (when she was an atheist). When she later converted to Catholicism, she realized that the experience was more geared towards telling her that God existed, and because the experience was so powerful she naturally (and mistakenly) associated it with Mormonism being true. My experiences have more been, "I am God, I'm telling you "X." than confirmation that Catholicism is true. That Catholicism is true is much more of an intellectual exercise and confirmation for me than whether God exists.

Was it about something else other than a god?
In a way, it was about God and God wanting me to be at peace. It was very basic, in that way, but there was that distinct "instruction" for what I should do. And by "instruction" I mean an intuitive notion or realization to be "this" way.
Does anyone these days have a religious experience entailing the Greek gods? Zeus, Athena etc?
Oh, probably. People have loads of religious experiences with different faiths. I believe that God can use other religions to teach people true things, though Catholicism has the fullness of the truth in divine revelation. But people can also have religious experiences with supernatural beings that aren't God as well, and those can be dangerous.

Did it make you convert?
I was already Catholic, but I think it made my faith more real and personal for me in a unique way.

Do you still think about it?
Sure. Not often, but sometimes.

How common are these? Does everyone at your church have one or do only a special few?
I can't really speak to that. But I've heard about lots of people having religious experiences. The thing is, all of these experiences are unique, and you can't control when or how they really happen.

How many religious experiences do individual people have?
However many a person needs and/or allows themselves to have. You have to be receptive to the possibility of a religious experience in order to have one.

Do these become more frequent the higher up the religious hierarchy you become?
I don't know, but I highly doubt it. A high position in the hierarchy is absolutely no automatic indicator of personal holiness. But we would hope that those who are in charge of the spiritual care of many others would be pursuing a strong relationship with God, regardless of how many religious experiences one has.

Have these always been common events or have these become more popular?
They've always been common, but they take on different forms, people interpret them in different ways, and people talk about them differently through the ages.

Are these confined to one religion or do all religions have them?
I think it's possible to have one no matter what religion you are.

Is there peer pressure to have one?
In some instances, yes, but not officially. The thing with Catholicism is that there's more pressure to go to Mass and communal events than there is to have a religious experience.

Do you know if people lie about having one so that they feel special within the group or so that they don't feel they are the only one missing out?
Well yeah, sometimes. But that's a bit of a loaded question. People (especially young people) lie about all kinds of things in order to fit in. That doesn't make true religious experiences invalid. But it's also very difficult to objectively validate a religious experience in ways that modern society accepts as "proof."

I like this thread.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Basilisa Marie

[MithLuin]

Regarding the question of whether or not such things were more or less common 100 year ago - it really is hard to say. We're talking about individual experiences that often happen either completely interiorly (no outward sign) or while a person is alone.


[quote]‎"The Holy Spirit … seemed to go through me, body and soul. I could feel the impression, like a wave of electricity, going through and through me. Indeed it seemed to come in waves and waves of liquid love for I could not express it in any other way. It seemed like the very breath of God. I can recollect distinctly that it seemed to fan me, like immense wings. No words can express the wonderful love that was shed abroad in my heart. I wept aloud with joy and love; and I do not know but I should say, I literally bellowed out the unutterable gushings of my heart. These waves came over me, and over me, and over me, one after the other, until I recollect I cried out, “I shall die if these waves continue to pass over me.” I said, “Lord, I cannot bear any more;” yet I had no fear of death."

Charles Finney, Second Great Awakening (1821)[/quote]
He was a Presbyterian minister who preached many revivals and became president of Oberlin college: [url="http://www.christianitytoday.com/ch/131christians/evangelistsandapologists/finney.html"]brief article[/url]. He had this experience in the year given, and wrote about it later. He was alone in the woods near his house when it happened, and he'd gone into the woods specifically to give his life over to God -- it wasn't out of the blue.


Certainly religious experiences were widely reported during both the Great Awakening (1730-1760) and Second Great Awakening (1800-1840) among Protestant Americans. Whether such experiences are more or less common today, I do not know. I seriously doubt they have been 'uncommon' at any time in history, though. One could expect more open discussion of such things during times of 'revival' and renewal or reform of religion.

Edited December 7, 2011 by MithLuin

[Laudate_Dominum]

Good questions. I'll share with the class.

[i]I am interested to know what a religious experience is.[/i]

[i]Who on this forum has had one?[/i]

I have had many experiences that might be called religious or spiritual. Reducing [i]the[/i] religious experience - which is highly existential - to the idea of a discrete extraordinary experience, doesn't jive with me.

[i]What was it like?[/i]

I don't think I can respond in terms of an "it."

[i]Did it give you any insights to your religion or to a different religion?[/i]

Speaking of religious experience in general - yes, there is insight. In my experience this is not a discursive or theoretical insight but something deeply intuitive. And yet, the religious experience is everything. The sense of a transcendent context and all that. Without it I suppose religion would be little more than empty ritual, superstition, and claptrap. And I personally would be no more compelled by Catholicism than I am by the cult of Isis or John Frum.

[i]How detailed was the experience?[/i]

I suppose I have had individual experiences of an extraordinary nature (not apparitions or anything that wild), but I really don't think much about them or give them much credence. I don't trust my memory of ambiguous events or my ability to interpret them sufficiently to say that these were definitively of a supernatural origin. For example, I've felt very deep apprehensions of the presence and goodness of God. What is the value of these experiences? I don't predicate my belief on them, nor would I appeal to them in an argument. I don't know what they were or how to explain them but I wouldn't rule out naturalistic explanations [i]a priori[/i]. I suppose in the moment they can be indubitably real. I guess one interpretation is that they are spiritual consolations that serve a purpose at that time.

[i]How do you know you can trust it, e.g. know what the source was, know that it wasn't deceptive, know that it came from a particular god or a particular faith?[/i]

I don't. At least not in a strong sense. My faith is largely lived out in uncertainty and darkness, sad to say.

[i]Was it about something else other than a god?[/i]

Again, I don't really have one killer experience in mind in all this, but one example might be an intuition, contextualized by and seemingly originating in a divine presence, of the interconnectedness and meaningfulness of all people and things. I'm familiar with the so-called "God helmet," and that people describe experiences of this sort while tripping on DMT, et cetera. Perhaps extensions of the classic problem of conflicting religious experience.

[i]Does anyone these days have a religious experience entailing the Greek gods? Zeus, Athena etc?[/i]

I do not know, but it wouldn't surprise me. If I had been born in different circumstances I might have interpreted my experience in terms of Zeus or Vishnu. But then it wouldn't have been the same thing at all. Such experiences are basically incommunicable and unrepeatable (to borrow a bit of personalist lingo). The way I see things, religious experience is a very fuzzy area inextricably bound up with subjectivity and the like. Judging in what sense they have validity is not easy. I'm not talking about bogus religious experience either, like results of cult brainwashing or asinine apophenia. But anyway...

[i]Did it make you convert?[/i]

No one experience made me convert. I might say that a confluence of experiences, some of them quite spiritual, were essential to my conversion years ago.

[i]Do you still think about it?[/i]

A bit; but the present moment surely takes precedence. Experience is ephemeral and increasingly phantasmal.

[i]How common are these? Does everyone at your church have one or do only a special few?[/i]

I have no idea. Although, they seem to be extraordinary by definition. I am aware of religious sects that are highly focused on emotionally-charged experiences of a spiritual nature and I'm very turned off by this. For example, I think that pentacostalism is fake.

[i]How many religious experiences do individual people have?[/i]

No clue.

[i]Do these become more frequent the higher up the religious hierarchy you become?[/i]

Catholicism does not emphasize extraordinary experiences and I'm not aware of any correlation with clerical rank. I would say no.

[i]Have these always been common events or have these become more popular?[/i]

Dunno.

[i]Are these confined to one religion or do all religions have them?[/i]

I think the discussion would have to involve an elucidation of the many kinds of religious experience and an analysis of specific religions. For the sake of throwing something out there I would again speculate that there is something as personal and unrepeatable as subjectivity itself in a deep and genuine religious experience. There are no doubt many sham religious experiences that are based on delusion, deception, and psychological ill-health.

[i]Is there peer pressure to have one?[/i]

Jesus Camp comes to mind.

[i]Do you know if people lie about having one so that they feel special within the group or so that they don't feel they are the only one missing out?[/i]

Sure. I don't really know what this question is all about. Social shenanigans take place in religious circles.

Edited December 7, 2011 by Laudate_Dominum

[stevil]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1323296093' post='2346835']
[i]Do you know if people lie about having one so that they feel special within the group or so that they don't feel they are the only one missing out?[/i]

Sure. I don't really know what this question is all about. Social shenanigans take place in religious circles.
[/quote]
I was just wondering how much importance from a group culture a religious experience might have. I mean, are people expected to have one? Do they feel that they are not close enough to god if they haven't had one?

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='stevil' timestamp='1323337585' post='2347231']
I was just wondering how much importance from a group culture a religious experience might have. I mean, are people expected to have one? Do they feel that they are not close enough to god if they haven't had one?
[/quote]
I don't really know, I can't much speculate on other people's subjective experience, and my personal experience of religion is quite limited. My own conversion was highly individual and group culture was not directly instrumental (although of course religion is learned and transmitted socially), but I don't know that my experience was typical. I can't say I relate to the idea of a religious person who has no experience of the spiritual. I think of mere cultural religiosity.

Part of my problem with your questions is that religion can refer to so many things that are only superficially alike. There are surely sects in which pressure to experience something extraordinary is profound. The charismatic movement may be an example somewhat close to home. I've not experienced the many religions of the world. I'm sure the kind of questions you're interested in here have been studied via cultural anthropology, psychology of religion w/psychometrics, etc. I have a friend who is into all that, and I'm interested in it, but I don't have any expertise. hehe. Actually, I'm particularly fascinating by the traditional religions of New Guinea as well as ancient Hellenistic religion (I know, pretty disparate). Okay, maybe this is a tangent. nm.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Laudate_Dominum

[Nola Seminarian]

[quote name='stevil' timestamp='1323337585' post='2347231']
I was just wondering how much importance from a group culture a religious experience might have. I mean, are people expected to have one? Do they feel that they are not close enough to god if they haven't had one?
[/quote]

i would like to ask what [i]you[/i] would classify as a religious experience before i respond to this.

(Nota Bene: im not trying to be a jerk, just curious about what you define it as)