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[Guest]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1321646867' post='2337975']
The only difference is that swimsuit and pornographic models are that much more broken and damaged than your female friends.
ETA: Often because they're so desensitized to being treated as objects of sexual gratification by men.[/quote] I have a really hard time believing that about women who appear in sports illustrated swimsuit mags and similar stuff. I really do. Cause its higher class and I really feel they know exactly what they are doing and they just don't care.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Guest

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1321647029' post='2337977']
I have a really hard time believing that about women who appear in sports illustrated swimsuit mags and similar stuff. I really do. Cause its higher class and I really feel they know exactly what they are doing and they just don't care.
[/quote]
Perhaps they do. Even so, to say they deserve to be treated that way is still wrong. because they don't.

[Guest]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1321647323' post='2337979']
Perhaps they do. Even so, to say they deserve to be treated that way is still wrong. because they don't.[/quote] they are taking higher class lustfull pics. Guys are going to lust after them. They know this. They want the money. I'm not saying they deserve it but come on. It is what it is.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1321647029' post='2337977']
I have a really hard time believing that about women who appear in sports illustrated swimsuit mags and similar stuff. I really do. Cause its higher class and I really feel they know exactly what they are doing and they just don't care.
[/quote]
[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1321647494' post='2337980']
they are taking higher class lustfull pics. Guys are going to lust after them. They know this. They want the money. I'm not saying they deserve it but come on. It is what it is.
[/quote]
That's exactly the problem. I'm surprised you don't see that. They're offering themselves up as an objectified sexual entity because they simply don't understand the nature of sexuality anymore. They've been so warped by their culture telling them that women are nothing more than objects for men's sexual pleasure that they've internalized that attitude, and they can't even see anything wrong with it anymore.
By supporting that industry, and by 'lusting after' those women, you're contributing to the society that has already destroyed the meaning of sexuality, and destroyed (quite possibly forever) their own understanding of their innate dignity as a human being.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1321647494' post='2337980']
they are taking higher class lustfull pics. Guys are going to lust after them. They know this. They want the money. I'm not saying they deserve it but come on. It is what it is.
[/quote]

There is no such thing as classy pics taken to exploit the human person. Whether or not they "know what they are getting into" is inconsequential of the fact that THESE ARE WOMEN ARE PERSONS THAT GOD CREATED AND ENDOWED WITH DIGNITY, WHICH SHOULD BE RESPECTED, WHETHER THEY ARE RESPECTING THEMSELVES OR NOT. And who are you to judge to whether they know what they are doing or not? I would bet that most of them have been told all of their lives that the way to get respect is to be a sex object. Or that being pretty is all they've got going for them. Or that that will make them happy. I doubt that they have a correct understanding of human sexuality at all.

[Theresita Nerita]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1321647494' post='2337980']
they are taking higher class lustfull pics. Guys are going to lust after them. They know this. They want the money. I'm not saying they deserve it but come on. It is what it is.
[/quote]

I think that it's best to be careful whenever one finds oneself thinking "welp its their own fault, they want this to happen" about anyone. I think one of the basic things I love about our faith is that it doesn't let you fool yourself into thinking you know what's going on in another person's head.

like the psalmist says, even to God himself:

That you may be justified when you give sentence
and be without reproach when you judge
O see, in guilt I was born
A sinner was I conceived.

I mean, all of us fail in numerous ways. You could truly find a way to rationalize to yourself that anybody "deserves" anything that happens to them - "he deserved to get hit by a car - he was walking home drunk." But I always catch myself when I think things like that because I don't know the person's history, their psychology, their battles they're fighting.

And I think that in one sense, that's why for example no one can judge you for looking at sports illustrated - because no one on this board knows your heart, your battles, etc. No one can judge me, either. But in the same way, no one can judge SI girls and say that they want or deserve anything that happens to them, because even if they honestly [i]think [/i]they want to make money and get ogled, in one sense they do, in another sense I think it often torments them. And that's yet another battle for them that we can't understand.

my 2 cents.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Theresita Nerita

[Guest]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1321647780' post='2337981']

That's exactly the problem. I'm surprised you don't see that. They're offering themselves up as an objectified sexual entity because they simply don't understand the nature of sexuality anymore. They've been so warped by their culture telling them that women are nothing more than objects for men's sexual pleasure that they've internalized that attitude, and they can't even see anything wrong with it anymore.
By supporting that industry, and by 'lusting after' those women, you're contributing to the society that has already destroyed the meaning of sexuality, and destroyed (quite possibly forever) their own understanding of their innate dignity as a human being.[/quote]Godbless bro you're a very wise man and I respect everything you say. I agree with what you are saying here somewhat. I don't think all the women who appear in sports illustrated are all nieve and don't understand. I bet most of the women are pretty classy and not whores or anything like that. Its just I think they really don't care. They don't care if I have a problem with masturbation and I'm going to lust aftwr them. Lol they want their money and there beautiful. Its the same way when women dress in a lustfull manner. They don't care. They can have tons of respect for themselves and love God and all that. They just don't care that guys struggle with lust.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1321648096' post='2337982']

There is no such thing as classy pics taken to exploit the human person. Whether or not they "know what they are getting into" is inconsequential of the fact that THESE ARE WOMEN ARE PERSONS THAT GOD CREATED AND ENDOWED WITH DIGNITY, WHICH SHOULD BE RESPECTED, WHETHER THEY ARE RESPECTING THEMSELVES OR NOT. And who are you to judge to whether they know what they are doing or not? I would bet that most of them have been told all of their lives that the way to get respect is to be a sex object. Or that being pretty is all they've got going for them. Or that that will make them happy. I doubt that they have a correct understanding of human sexuality at all.[/quote] Well I for one don't think the sports illustrated swimsuit edition is that bad. These are all natural beautiful women. Although I think most guys are going to find it difficult not to lust after these beautiful women. And I think the women know that. I don't think that makes them bad though.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Guest

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1321648239' post='2337984']
Godbless bro you're a very wise man and I respect everything you say. I agree with what you are saying here somewhat. I don't think all the women who appear in sports illustrated are all nieve and don't understand. I bet most of the women are pretty classy and not whores or anything like that. Its just I think they really don't care. They don't care if I have a problem with masturbation and I'm going to lust aftwr them. Lol they want their money and there beautiful. Its the same way when women dress in a lustfull manner. They don't care. They can have tons of respect for themselves and love God and all that. They just don't care that guys struggle with lust.
[/quote]

If THEY don't care, YOU need to care.

If SHE doesn't value herself, YOU should.

You need to rise up and be the better person, always. That's Christianity at the core.

What if someone was saying this stuff about your sister? Is that how you would respond? "Well, she's asking for it."

Give me a break.

Edited November 18, 2011 by MissyP89

[Guest]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1321649700' post='2337992']

If THEY don't care, YOU need to care.

If SHE doesn't value herself, YOU should.

You need to rise up and be the better person, always. That's Christianity at the core.

What if someone was saying this stuff about your sister? Is that how you would respond? "Well, she's asking for it."

Give me a break.[/quote] I'm just talking about the sports illustrated swimsuit edition. These are beautiful natural women. No breast implants or stuff like that. The pics are not that bad either. A lot of them are tastefull. My point is these women know men are still going to find it difficult not to lust after some of these pictures. And I think it comes back to most people don't have a problem with masturbation and they think its normal and not some huge sin that's gonna have you burning in the depths of hell forever. But we know that isn't the case and it can send you to hell and that it is wrong and we shouldn't masturbate. So ya. And how this all started was I said I feel less guilty lusting after a girl in a magazine like a sports illustrated swimsuit edition. I shouldn't even said that though cause its all wrong. Alright I'll just stop. Lol but I do think I have some points but I agree you guys are right. Laters.

Edited November 18, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1321649700' post='2337992']

If THEY don't care, YOU need to care.

If SHE doesn't value herself, YOU should.

You need to rise up and be the better person, always. That's Christianity at the core.

What if someone was saying this stuff about your sister? Is that how you would respond? "Well, she's asking for it."

Give me a break.[/quote] and to add on this a tad more. I think she can care and can value herself yet still dress this way and not care about ME and other GUYS. So its not like every women who does this is some lost puppy who just doesn't care anymore. Its not that cut and dry. But I still see what you're saying and agree with you. Godbless !

[Totus Tuus]

Just chiming in here -- I have read that it's important to recognize porn as an addiction. I read, but don't know if it's true, that the chemical reaction that happens in a man's brain is stronger than the reaction that occurs when a person uses heroin, meaning that it's more addictive (and maybe this happens in a woman's brain too- because while I do not deny the problem that porn can be for women, I don't know if this particular fact is true for them since they're not wired as visually). Porn can't just be treated as a moral problem, but as an addiction that men and women literally need to affirm that they have and seek treatment of some sort.

[Guest]

And so its understood I respect women a ton. I really do and if you saw my actions the last year and a half with a beautiful married friend I have you would know I do respect women. She is going through a horrible time in her marriage and came to a point where she didn't care. But I did care like you said I should and therefore nothing happened that I would regrett. So ya. I'm not patting myself on the back but I am letting you guys know I do respect women. Alright Godbless.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1321648096' post='2337982']

There is no such thing as classy pics taken to exploit the human person. Whether or not they "know what they are getting into" is inconsequential of the fact that THESE ARE WOMEN ARE PERSONS THAT GOD CREATED AND ENDOWED WITH DIGNITY, WHICH SHOULD BE RESPECTED, WHETHER THEY ARE RESPECTING THEMSELVES OR NOT. And who are you to judge to whether they know what they are doing or not? I would bet that most of them have been told all of their lives that the way to get respect is to be a sex object. Or that being pretty is all they've got going for them. Or that that will make them happy. I doubt that they have a correct understanding of human sexuality at all.
[/quote]
Haha, we said almost exactly the same thing. :D

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1321648239' post='2337984']
Godbless bro you're a very wise man and I respect everything you say. I agree with what you are saying here somewhat. I don't think all the women who appear in sports illustrated are all nieve and don't understand. I bet most of the women are pretty classy and not whores or anything like that. Its just I think they really don't care. They don't care if I have a problem with masturbation and I'm going to lust aftwr them. Lol they want their money and there beautiful. Its the same way when women dress in a lustfull manner. They don't care. They can have tons of respect for themselves and love God and all that. They just don't care that guys struggle with lust.
[/quote]
I didn't say they're naive or that they're whores. I said that they're very, very broken and abused by our hypersexualized society. Their concept of dignity is so shattered that they don't see how they're violating themselves and letting themselves be violated. It's a vicious, disgusting circle.
At the end of the day, no I don't think they truly do love and respect God or themselves. They may try; I'm sure many of them try their very best, and we should pray to God that it's enough, but so many of these women are so mutilated by the western culture of sexuality that they quite possibly don't even know the real meaning of respect and love any longer. They're victims of enormous abuse, and as we know these days, victims of abuse are often profoundly damaged by their suffering.
God help them, and us too.

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1321648239' post='2337984']
They just don't care that guys struggle with lust.
[/quote]


Alright, let's stop this train right here. Women will never BE able to care until guys stop treating THEM like meat. 95% of the time I cannot even have a conversation with guys at my work because they are either checking out some other girl or staring at my chest. I get that this is not the case with every single guy. But for the majority, there is a huge problem. When I call them out on it, they just say "oh, but I'm just looking. they're beautiful. it doesn't hurt anyone." THAT IS A LOAD OF GARBAGE. It hurts everyone. So this whole thing is a problem for BOTH sexes. I refuse to let women take the blame. And I refuse to blame men (though it is hard as hell not to because let me tell you. sometimes if I think I just need to wear a burkah). It's a mutual thing. That means every person has to make an effort to stop treating other people in ways contrary to their inherent dignity. The whole "women need to dress modestly so men don't sin" or "women don't care about men" that is croutons. It is not true and it doesn't hold men accountable for THEIR own actions.