More On P0Rn

[BG45]

[quote name='brianthephysicist' timestamp='1321739926' post='2338334']
For me, breaking this addiction and staying chaste, was and is only possible through the grace of God. I have spent an incredible amount of time praying for the intercessions of the Blessed Virgin Mary and St. Joseph, her most chaste spouse. I can't even begin to describe how much help they've been for me. Not only was their intercession helpful, but their example as well. We're called to live out a life like Jesus. I try to do that, but I'm not perfect and it doesn't always work. On those days when I'm close to despair over my situation, I think about Mary, Joseph, and the other saints, because (even though Jesus was 100% human in addition to being 100% divine) sometimes it's easier to relate to someone that was only human but that was still able to live out God's will for their life. They have given me confidence that it is possible to find a way to walk with God.
[/quote]

This, this, a thousand times this. That and if I do start having issues with lust and this isn't helping, I start asking myself, "How would I feel if someone was feeling this for my mom? My cousins? My grandmother? The Blessed Virgin Mary?" Every time I see these "sexy" and "naughty" Mary or nun depictions, it fills me with an utter revulsion.

I think the hardest thing, male or female, when dealing with lust is to realize how wrong it is, and to manage to feel revulsion at it period, not just at something that offends us on principles of belief. I wish I did better at this myself, because God knows I'm not the best at it. I think Bl. John Paul II may have summed it up best when he said that our society has lost a sense of what is sin.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1321662239' post='2338066']
Please don't put words in my mouth. Did I need to say, "because you [b]and others[/b] were defensive about the issue" to get my point across without being called out on it?[/quote] apparently you did, because it sure seemed like you were pointing your comment directly at me, considering you said, "I know from your previous posts that you're very defensive about the issue of women and porn"....that pretty much sounds like you are talking directly to me.

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1321662239' post='2338066']Your interpretation is that it was snippy. It wasn't snippy in my brain when I was typing it. Can you point out which part offended you because I'm genuinely confused by which part of my clarification warranted that.[/quote] perhaps i'm just having a geniunely shiitake mushroom week, and pretty much everything everyone says sounds snippy to me. especially after you called me out on being defensive. good to know you weren't being snippy when you wrote it, sorry that I took it that way.

[quote name='Totus Tuus' timestamp='1321662239' post='2338066']Sorry, I really fail to see where I offended you in any way. I can assure you that from my vantage point, I never ill-directed anything towards you and that that was completely your interpretation and not my intention.[/quote]
noted.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1321759357' post='2338433']

I haven't finished reading the thread yet, but I have to respond to the bolded: No you're not going to hate it, you're going to LOVE that the Church and Christ calls you to virtue. You'll hate how difficult it is, but the fact that we are called to moral excellence and to live virtuously is not something to hate, but something to rejoice over.

I was there, and I'm not now, and I love that the Church and Christ called me to something greater.
[/quote]

This is a fair statement. We were essentially on the same thought train here, I think I just articulated it vaguely. By hating "it" I refer specifically to the moments of temptation that must be resisted. It wouldn't be temptation, after all, if those moments weren't physically/emotionally taxing. The act of pulling away from an addiction is certainly a painful one, but absolutely necessary for healing.

Put simply: no pain, no gain.

There does come a point where the battle does become less intense and we're able to see with greater clarity how good the path we're on truly is. Becoming holy is often extremely arduous, but if we keep at it with perseverance and sacramental grace, the payoff is huge.

And as to your last statement, I'm beginning to reach the point where I can say the same: "I was there, and I'm not now." I can only hope that one day I have the confidence that I can [i]stay [/i]on this road. I'm very grateful for these baby steps.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1321748183' post='2338383']

Sure they do. Every woman (and every man, for that matter) deserves to be lusted after, to feel sexually desired and wanted.
[/quote]

Ah, another person I've missed talking to. I think the issue here is the actual meaning of "lust." So often, the normal attraction between two people when they first meet, or even the chemistry a married couple shares in the bedroom is called lust. But that's not true at all.

You're right in saying that mostly everyone wants to be wanted, needed, loved. (Feel free to start singing at any time.) And everyone deserves to be sought after, too.

But desire is not lust. Attraction isn't lust, either. Neither of those things are sin, and I thank God for that!

Defined properly, lust is when you [i]use[/i] a person for their sexuality. If you lust after someone, they are just a means to an end: your own personal pleasure. This also applies when their sexuality takes precedence over their dignity and personality.

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1321749541' post='2338389']
It's only acceptable to have normal attraction in the bedroom with a spouse.
[/quote]

What would you consider "normal attraction"?

If a man calls me pretty for example, or if I find myself admiring his eyes, those are simple expressions of attraction. There is nothing wrong with those emotional or even physical stirrings -- "butterflies". God put them there. It's a foretaste of what He calls us to be if we marry someday: partakers in His creative love. The [i]desire[/i] is totally normal. Only the [i]abuse[/i] of that desire is sin.

From the Catechism:

[i]CCC [/i][i]2351: [/i]"[i]Lust [/i]is [b]disordered[/b] desire for or [b]inordinate[/b] enjoyment of sexual pleasure. Sexual pleasure is morally disordered [i]when sought for itself[/i], isolated from its procreative and unitive purposes."

Hope that helps.

Edited November 20, 2011 by MissyP89

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1321821036' post='2338597']
apparently you did, because it sure seemed like you were pointing your comment directly at me, considering you said, "I know from your previous posts that you're very defensive about the issue of women and porn"....that pretty much sounds like you are talking directly to me.

perhaps i'm just having a geniunely shiitake mushroom week, and pretty much everything everyone says sounds snippy to me. especially after you called me out on being defensive. good to know you weren't being snippy when you wrote it, sorry that I took it that way.


noted.
[/quote]
I'm glad we've cleared this up. I did not intend to pick on you, I hope you believe that. I'm sorry if you've had a bad week.

[Papist]

[img]http://www.onlinemba.com/images/internet-porn.jpg[/img]

[dominicansoul]

way to keep the Lord's day holy...

[Papist]

Guess gorging yourself on food and watching football on Thanksgiving supersedes porn.

[DMcB]

I don't have anything to add that hasn't already been said...but I do want to recognize the fact that so many people are being fair and honest in this thread. Sure, a couple of dust ups have come to the surface but for the most part, the dignity toward self and others, plus the conviction for our faith shows that you all are a caring and concerned bunch. Good-on each an every one of you.

Edited December 21, 2011 by DMcB

[Era Might]

I knew this thread was going to be trouble when I opened it lol.

In the old days I would have posted a sentimental highfalutin reflection on conjugal love, but I've learned a lot from Winchester over the years, so I'm going to make it real simple. Put a ring on her finger and you can do it three times a week, four if you're lucky. That's not so bad a deal. Otherwise wear a hair shirt, grit your teeth and bear it.

Edited December 21, 2011 by Era Might

[beatitude]

I don't understand the attraction to porn, as I've never felt it. The whole idea repulses me. Once I stumbled on some by accident, and I didn't find the sight sexually gratifying at all - it made me feel sick.

Perhaps this is because ever since I was very young I've known that the pornography industry preys on vulnerable women. Dr Mary-Anne Layden, the director of a women's psychological health service in Philadelphia who has worked with numerous women from the sex industry, has this to say:

[quote]"Most strippers, as with other women who work in the sex industry, are adult survivors of childhood sexual abuse. Research indicates the number is between 60%-80%. One study found that 35% of strippers have Multiple Personality Disorder, 55% had Borderline Personality Disorder, and 60% had major depressive episodes, These are severe psychiatric problems and many of them are connected to childhood sexual abuse. These are women who when they were little girls would get into their beds each night and roll themselves into a fetal position and every night he would come in and peel her open. The physical and visual invasion of little girl's bodies damages them psychologically and gives them a psychologically unhealthy view of sexuality. Often as adults they reenact their childhood trauma by working as strippers, Playboy models, and prostitutes. The men who, now as customers, physically and visually invade the adult women's bodies, reenact the role of the perpetrator. These women work in the sex industry because it feels like home."[/quote]

Of course not all women in the sex industry have been abused. There is a chance you are watching a woman who chose to be there, who isn't suffering from terrible psychological trauma. But the chances that she has been abused and is suffering the consequences are far higher than the chance that she is not.

Can anyone derive pleasure from looking at such a thing, knowing that?

[Paladin D]

A lot has been said in this thread, so I'll keep it short.

Sexual immortality (including pornography) is so rampant in our society I often wonder if anyone, let alone even us, will ever make it through Heaven. It's a very discouraging thought, and often times I wonder how it'll ever change anytime soon.

[AccountDeleted]

I was thinking about porn again after watching an old episode of Boston Legal late one night. One of the lawyers was dating this woman who turned out to be a high paid call girl on the side. when he found out, he was appalled and broke off with her.

This made me wonder if any guy, who either uses prostitutes or looks at porn, would be happy to find out his own girlfriend (wife, sister, mother etc) was either a prostitute (highly paid or not) and/or a porn star.

It seems the it's okay to look at porn and/or use prostitutes but not to have one's loved ones actually work in the industry. Shouldn't this in itself tell people that the whole thing is wrong, and make them stay away from it? I guess not, but it did make me think of how often people have a double standard about this.

[MissyP89]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1324511926' post='2355497']
Can anyone derive pleasure from looking at such a thing, knowing that?
[/quote]

Porn is about selfishness. Those who enjoy it consider the girls (and guys) to be objects to be used or products to be consumed, not real people with real emotions.

[BigJon16]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1324511926' post='2355497']
Can anyone derive pleasure from looking at such a thing, knowing that?
[/quote]

As a hormone enraged 16 year old, I will say that I do in fact struggle with the "P" word, as much as it pains me to admit it. I wasn't sure if it was the right thing to say on here, being it is a fairly public forum, and the only person I've ever told was my confessor and a few close "brothers in Christ." I don't want to put anyone in an awkward position, either.


I know all of these things about porn that you mentioned. I understand that its wrong. But that doesn't always seem to stop me, for some reason. Am I a horrible person? Probably.

The last thing on my mind when these temptations arise is "the mental" welfare of these people. Most of the time, they seem to be having a jolly ol' time, or just acting. Maybe that's the lies of the media, but temptation is a strong thing, and trust me, "when it rains, it pours". I never feel "slightly tempted". Its always pretty full on...

The devil has a way of pulling me in, as he knows that it is my weakness. It's my cross, and its a large struggle for me.

I think most psychologists and a lot of the posts on this thread are missing the spiritual-warfare part of an attraction to porn. They don't call Satan the "Great deceiver" for nothing...


None of those suggested cites with all the preventative stuff seemed to help, BTW.

Also, I will probably regret this post, at some point. Out of shame our guilt, Im not sure yet. But I felt like I had to chime in.


"Saint Michael the Archangel..."