More On P0Rn

[brianthephysicist]

Before I start, sorry for the randomness of my thought train and for the lack of quoting previous posts

First, to women: please don't feel like it is your responsibility to wear burkas everywhere. I mean yes, dressing modestly is helpful, but ultimately it comes down to a man's decision of whether or not he's going to lust after a woman. When a woman dresses modestly, she makes it easier for a man to affirm her dignity, but a man should affirm her dignity simply because she is one of God's beloved daughters, irregardless of what she wears. Let's face it, repression gets us nowhere

I want to reemphasize something I only briefly mentioned in my last post. The only way to break the cycle of addiction is to stop sugar-coating it and realize that it is a matter of life and death. I believe Nihil expounded on this point quite well, saying something to the effect of us being judged by our actions, and our actions alone; not by comparing us to those around us or by using some scorecard. It is far too easy to rationalize ourselves into this type of moral relativism.

There's a metaphor I heard once for our sinful actions: Think about a toddler. Every day that toddler is learning new things and growing bigger and stronger. Then, one day, he/she takes the initiative to stand up and try to walk. That little toddler is only going to make it a few steps before falling right back on its butt. The parents of that child are ecstatic that the child took its first steps. They knew that the baby was going to fall on its butt soon after standing, but the fact that their child is making progress brings joy to their hearts. I truly believe that God is happy when we make that effort to stand up and truly see how long we can stay standing. He knows that we're not very strong, especially in the beginning, but He is pleased by our desire to please Him. When we are standing up, out of our sins, and we fall back down into that behavior again, it hurts. A lot. But we have a decision to make: we can choose to continue sitting in our sin, where we feel "comfortable" and we can rationalize it by saying "it hurts too much to fall" (most often for me, that's pride talking), or we can pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and try again to rise up over our sinful behavior and live out a life that is pleasing to God.

Okay kind of random, but DB: stop blaming this on testosterone. I'm 22. I'll show you testosterone. Nunsense mentioned some wholesome physical activities that you can put your energy into and she's completely right. I don't really know how to express this properly, but testosterone gives you a drive. It is most easily associated with the sex drive, but when we temper our thoughts and actions, we can use this drive for whatever we wish. When someone tells us to "be a man", they're telling us to 1) tap into that reservoir of strength and courage that testosterone supplies us with, and 2) to step up to do something difficult (and usually counter-cultural). I think of so many movies where you can see brilliant examples of men willing to stand up and sacrifice everything for what they believe in. They aren't held back by their testosterone, rather they are using it for the good of others.

Also, a slight side note related to this issue. When it comes to hormones, us men kind of have it easy. From day to day, our testosterone levels stay relatively fixed. I don't know the details very well, but women have multiple hormones that affect these types of things for them and each one of them goes through a roller coaster of fluctuation over the course of a week. Moral of the story: guys shouldn't complain about hormones.

Db, you mentioned in one of your posts, something along the lines of "If I had simply told you that I don't watch porn and I haven't had sex in 5 years that you would all be saying great job". Great job! That's amesome! It really is. I'm so happy that God has given you the grace to be able to do that. Please don't think that any of us are attacking you. We just want to help you to take the next step to become closer to God. A metaphor that I've heard in regard to this has to do with report cards. Assume that for your program, you need a C+ or higher to advance. Imagine at the end of a semester getting your final grades and seeing 3 A's, a C-, and a D. To get those A's, you had to put in a little bit of work, but not very much. You spent at least 3 to 4 times as much time and effort on each of those two classes than you did on all three of your other classes. It feels like it was time wasted. Because you have to take the two classes again in order to advance, it feels as if it was exactly the same as completely failing. You get this sense of "what's the point of even trying?" We can despair in this "failure", or we can take this as an opportunity to say "okay, I'm not entirely happy with the outcome, but I gave a good effort. Now I will ask my professor and some of the other students what more I can do the next time around." Each of us has our own crosses to bear, our own sins that we find difficult. We can rationalize away our sins or we can continue to confront them, always looking for new ways to overcome them.

I have to agree with LilRed about Satan 'dressing things up' to look good when they are not. The SI Swimsuit magazine is not classy. End of story.

Something I got a glimpse of when I started to rid myself of this addiction was that everything is connected. Missy posted about how sexual sins mess up person as a whole and she is completely right. Every part of our morality is connected. When we sin, we choose to create a rift between ourselves and God. By continuing to live in sin, we move farther and farther from Him. How can we possibly hope that this will only affect one small part of our morality. By accepting that it is "okay" to live without in this part of our lives, we begin to drive Him out of other parts as well. The funny thing about all of this, is that we can actually use the opposite of this effect to our advantage. By opening our heart to God, letting Him into some of the smaller parts of our life that seem unrelated, it has a positive effect on helping us rid ourselves of the bigger things. Another way to put this (and one that feels more practical at certain times), is that a lack of discipline in one part of our lives can begin to erode discipline in other areas, but the converse is true, in that by increasing discipline in one aspect of our lives, it can help us to tackle discipline problems in other areas.

For me, breaking this addiction and staying chaste, was and is only possible through the grace of God. I have spent an incredible amount of time praying for the intercessions of the Blessed Virgin Mary and St. Joseph, her most chaste spouse. I can't even begin to describe how much help they've been for me. Not only was their intercession helpful, but their example as well. We're called to live out a life like Jesus. I try to do that, but I'm not perfect and it doesn't always work. On those days when I'm close to despair over my situation, I think about Mary, Joseph, and the other saints, because (even though Jesus was 100% human in addition to being 100% divine) sometimes it's easier to relate to someone that was only human but that was still able to live out God's will for their life. They have given me confidence that it is possible to find a way to walk with God.

Edited November 19, 2011 by brianthephysicist

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1321585100' post='2337721']sure we all know that right so why you wanna look at another dudes penis for any extended period of time if your a dude [/QUOTE]

still not as gay as twilight

[4588686]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1321688766' post='2338184']
[b]Last time I will derail this thread. I just want it to be known I don't think any woman "deserves" to be lusted after. [/b]
[/quote]

Sure they do. Every woman (and every man, for that matter) deserves to be lusted after, to feel sexually desired and wanted.

[Sarah147]

"Lust" is sinful. Women don't deserve to be looked over like a piece of meat. Maybe you mean "attraction"?

[4588686]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1321748680' post='2338385']
"Lust" is sinful. Women don't deserve to be looked over like a piece of meat. Maybe you mean "attraction"?
[/quote]


Some people like to be objectified.

But I was speaking of lust as a strong sexual attraction, not necessarily pure objectification. I think that women (and men) deserve more than just being lusted after, but being lusted after in itself can be nice too. People like feeling sexually desirable.

Edited November 20, 2011 by Hasan

[Sarah147]

It's only acceptable to have normal attraction in the bedroom with a spouse.

Remember the Scriptures that speak of lusting after someone in your heart, and it being adultery?

[4588686]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1321749541' post='2338389']
It's only acceptable to have normal attraction in the bedroom with a spouse.

Remember the Scriptures that speak of lusting after someone in your heart, and it being adultery?
[/quote]


Well I'm not a practicing Catholic so I doubt that we're going to agree on this. I don't see why the attraction needs to be 'normal' and why God cares what sort of attraction two consenting adults have for each other.

[Slappo]

[quote name='MissyP89' timestamp='1321507705' post='2337279']

Sorry, buddy, but "it's not a mortal sin anyway" is just a cheap excuse to stay caught in the cycle. Addiction isn't a green light for sin.

"Expecting a young male ... not to masturbate is a lot to ask ..."

Again, sorry, but if you're serious about your faith, that is exactly what you're being asked to do. Yes, it's really tough.[b] Yes, you're going to hate it.[/b] But that's what God is asking of you -- to man up, have courage, and stop.

It's not an issue of "which is more bad, with porn or not." It's about respecting yourself, God, and every woman that ever trusts you. When you choose this stuff, it basically says that your desires are more important than what anyone else needs from you.

I know you probably think it's impossible not to do it. But you can. I swear.
[/quote]

I haven't finished reading the thread yet, but I have to respond to the bolded: No you're not going to hate it, you're going to LOVE that the Church and Christ calls you to virtue. You'll hate how difficult it is, but the fact that we are called to moral excellence and to live virtuously is not something to hate, but something to rejoice over.

I was there, and I'm not now, and I love that the Church and Christ called me to something greater.

[arfink]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1321698773' post='2338202']

I can't really help you since I am not a male but how about channeling some of that testosterone into tiring things like active sports such as swimming, tennis, jogging - something apart from sex?
[/quote]

This can work... or it can backfire horribly. Talk to a soldier, the epitome of physical exertion and active lifestyle. They seem to actually struggle even MORE. Strangely enough. But for some people it works.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1321749541' post='2338389']
It's only acceptable to have normal attraction in the bedroom with a spouse.

[/quote]

yes, no one is sexually attracted to their wife/husband before they get married....

[Slappo]

[quote]
As adults it's not feasible to use blocking or filtering software- if you have to install it then you can uninstall it. Don't rely on that. You're an adult, and you'll just need to be more responsible that that. I wouldn't even suggest using such software for your children, or in situations where the users won't be administering their own computers. I was tasked with administering such software at the seminary (where many men chose not have their own computers) by the rector himself, at the request of concerned vocations directors, and I can tell you that everything we tried (and we tried dozens of applications) was very easily circumvented, even by novice users. Besides this, the filtering software will prove to be a massive hassle, often blocking completely unrelated and necessary sites.

Instead, consider getting a trusted friend (or friends) to help you out. Keep your computer in a public or open place where others can see you when you use it. And always remember that accountability isn't about being punished; it's about being radically freed. Work together.
[/quote]

Sorry, but I'm a married adult and this just isn't true. I still have a web blocker on my computer even though porn hasn't been very much of a problem the past year and a half. My wife has the "administrator" password, and when I was still struggling, she would regularly log into it so that I can edit what I needed to and tighten security. As of late we've just left the security disabled, but the fact that I can even open up the program and disable the internet with a couple of clicks, gives me an excellent tool to prevent any occurrences from happening, or stopping them before they get worse.

If stopping committing sins such as pornography requires blocking www.google.com and all other search engines, then do it. Seriously, the "inconvenience" of not having internet or not going to the websites you want/"need" to is not worth the risks of the pains of hell for all eternity.

[Guest]

I lift weights all the time. I'm pretty built. I'm active.

[Sarah147]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1321767180' post='2338444']

yes, no one is sexually attracted to their wife/husband before they get married....
[/quote]

I think most get what I mean. Sure, there is attraction before marriage, but I'm referring to lusting and sinful attractions.

[Jesus_lol]

feel free to correct me if i am wrong, but from my understanding of catholicism, the attraction/lust you are allowed to have for your girlfriend doesnt change after you are married, rather that you are then ok to act on it.


far be it from me to actually understand what those specific attractions and actions that are allowed actually [i]are[/i], but i am pretty sure that is how it works.

[Brother Adam]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1321817917' post='2338581']
feel free to correct me if i am wrong, but from my understanding of catholicism, the attraction/lust you are allowed to have for your girlfriend doesnt change after you are married, rather that you are then ok to act on it.


far be it from me to actually understand what those specific attractions and actions that are allowed actually [i]are[/i], but i am pretty sure that is how it works.
[/quote]

That is what is so terribly wrong with our current culture. We base our sense of love on attraction and lust. John Paul II's Theology of the Body calls us to transform our vision of sexuality. You can lust after your wife and it be just as unchaste and sinful as lusting after her when she was your girlfriend. Lust is a selfish, destructive, disabling act. It is rooted in utilitarianism.

The Catholic Church calls us to caritas, a charitable, self giving controlled true love, the personalistic norm where we respond to the immense value in another person. How much is your spouses sexuality worth? Can you separate their sexuality from the person?

What the church calls us to something wholly other and higher than what the world calls us to. The view of sexuality of the world, and the worth of the person will only tear us apart and lead to our demise. The value of the person that God calls us to respond to will build us up. No woman or man actually wants to be used as an object of lust, even if they think that is all they are worth and sell themselves short. It is up to us to spread the Good News of how much people are worth as the image of God.

Can a spouse respond to the beloveds physical sexual qualities in the Sacrament of Matrimony, yes, of course, sex is beautiful and wonderful and life giving within the freedom and protection of the Sacrament. But it all matters what the person wills and how they respond to the beloved.