I Have To Change Churches

[Sarah147]

That ain't right! Have you talked to the Pastor?

[cmaD2006]

CatherineM -- my only suggestion is to pray and do what the Lord says.

I recently changed parishes. And changing parishes meant resigning from key responsibilities. It was a very tough decision, and it was not fun making it. I based it on history -- in my case, could I see any fruit to what I have done? Round and round I went, and the answer was ... no.

So I've changed parishes. My schedule is much more calmer. My personal ministry is starting to develop again -- after being stagnant for so long. I have a good relationship with the priest at the parish.

I think my only regret is the university -- I will have to reapply and get the pastor at the new parish to sign off. That may be a bit of an issue, but I'm not going to worry about it until I'm ready to go there. I have peace in the decision that I made ... so it's a major sign that it was the right decision.

I pray that you find peace in the decision that you make, whatever that may be.

Edited November 18, 2011 by cmariadiaz

[tinytherese]

Maybe these people will reconsider if one day they themselves become disabled or get more disabled people at the parish. Couldn't they also get lawsuits for not accomodating the disabled?

[MithLuin]

There's generally loopholes for pre-existing buildings, and they *do* have an elevator - just one that is not accessable to people from the outside because of the new security system. So, it's probably not a legal issue (though I have no idea what Canada's laws are).

For a parish that has so little funds, spending over $10,000 on a security system might not have been the best use of them.

I see no harm in giving the pastor an opportunity to address the problem, but if no suitable solution is proposed...then it is time to move to a new parish. How involved can you be if you can't get into the building? If they are honestly struggling to pay the heating bill, then they are in dire straits. You leaving would just bring that to the fore. They raised the money for a security system; they'll raise the money for the heating bill too, I hope.

[CatherineM]

I think what bothers me the most about this is the pin key pad system. Giving everyone who needs them keys and a security code makes the building secure from the neighborhood. Requiring a pin system, which is logarithmically more expensive, isn't about keeping the bad guys in the neighborhood out, it is about keeping track of which parishioners are entering the building and when. In my mind, if you can be trusted with a key, then you can be trusted with a security code. I really wonder if they think some parishioners are coming in after hours to steal stuff, or if this is some kind of power trip thing. I've just never heard of a large church having this kind of system, let alone a financially struggling one with about 100 parishioners.

[arfink]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1321642743' post='2337951']
I think what bothers me the most about this is the pin key pad system. Giving everyone who needs them keys and a security code makes the building secure from the neighborhood. Requiring a pin system, which is logarithmically more expensive, isn't about keeping the bad guys in the neighborhood out, it is about keeping track of which parishioners are entering the building and when. In my mind, if you can be trusted with a key, then you can be trusted with a security code. I really wonder if they think some parishioners are coming in after hours to steal stuff, or if this is some kind of power trip thing. I've just never heard of a large church having this kind of system, let alone a financially struggling one with about 100 parishioners.
[/quote]

I have heard of this at very large churches, for example, the Cathedral of St. Paul and Minneapolis has such a system, as well as the largest parish in our diocese, The Church of the Epiphany, which is so large we called it the Diocese of Epiphany when I was in seminary. But yeah, a small parish? Hrm...

[brandelynmarie]

smells of elderberries...

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1321642743' post='2337951']
I think what bothers me the most about this is the pin key pad system. Giving everyone who needs them keys and a security code makes the building secure from the neighborhood. Requiring a pin system, which is logarithmically more expensive, isn't about keeping the bad guys in the neighborhood out, it is about keeping track of which parishioners are entering the building and when. In my mind, if you can be trusted with a key, then you can be trusted with a security code. I really wonder if they think some parishioners are coming in after hours to steal stuff, or if this is some kind of power trip thing. I've just never heard of a large church having this kind of system, let alone a financially struggling one with about 100 parishioners.
[/quote]

My home parish got a keypad for the side door. All the other doors have a regular key, but this one has a code so people can have access to the church and the 24 hr adoration chapel. Everyone who does adoration has the code...so they're pretty liberal with that. But a whole pin system? Just for people breaking in and stealing food, and not items from the sacristy or something? That really [i]is[/i] sounding like more of a control thing.

[mcts]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1321642743' post='2337951']
I think what bothers me the most about this is the pin key pad system. Giving everyone who needs them keys and a security code makes the building secure from the neighborhood. Requiring a pin system, which is logarithmically more expensive, isn't about keeping the bad guys in the neighborhood out, it is about keeping track of which parishioners are entering the building and when. In my mind, if you can be trusted with a key, then you can be trusted with a security code. I really wonder if they think some parishioners are coming in after hours to steal stuff, or if this is some kind of power trip thing. I've just never heard of a large church having this kind of system, let alone a financially struggling one with about 100 parishioners.
[/quote]

What happens when a key gets stolen and ends up in the wrong hands?

[CatherineM]

[quote name='mcts' timestamp='1321683104' post='2338180']

What happens when a key gets stolen and ends up in the wrong hands?
[/quote]
If they don't have the pin, they can't get in without setting off the alarm. Of course that would also work if there was a cheaper one code alarm system.

[MithLuin]

Sometimes, a salesman is able to talk people into getting more than then need. Not just in security systems; in anything. So, it could have gone from, 'we need to change the locks and get new keys' to 'we need this fancy-schmancy system' almost by accident. I know that some people get funny ideas about what to spend money on when they know it's not their money being spent...but even when it *is* your money, you can fall into that.

And yes, it may be a control thing, but I try to think the best of people unless I have good reason to know otherwise, so...I'll just put it down to a big mistake based on the information so far.

Regardless of the other issues, the logistics of keeping disabled parishioners locked outside and unable to get into the building to attend Sunday mass seems a mistake. Perhaps an usher needs to be assigned to the elevator to let people in or something.

[CatherineM]

[quote name='MithLuin' timestamp='1321740990' post='2338338']
Sometimes, a salesman is able to talk people into getting more than then need. Not just in security systems; in anything. So, it could have gone from, 'we need to change the locks and get new keys' to 'we need this fancy-schmancy system' almost by accident. I know that some people get funny ideas about what to spend money on when they know it's not their money being spent...but even when it *is* your money, you can fall into that.

And yes, it may be a control thing, but I try to think the best of people unless I have good reason to know otherwise, so...I'll just put it down to a big mistake based on the information so far.

Regardless of the other issues, the logistics of keeping disabled parishioners locked outside and unable to get into the building to attend Sunday mass seems a mistake. Perhaps an usher needs to be assigned to the elevator to let people in or something.
[/quote]
I suspect you are right about the salesman thing. In this case, the salesman is also the parishioner who will be in charge of letting people in. We do have ushers who are supposed to open the elevator door. They just never seem to get to it. They are either late to mass themselves, forget the elevator is there, or just don't think it is worth their time.

[Guest hermanita]

Catherine--I have a little brother who can hack into anything. I'm tempted to connect you two. Praying for sanity fo occur.

[CatherineM]

I went over last night for the first time since the change. I had to chair the women's meeting. I'm still president for another month. They have added a new sign to the exterior elevator door. It basically says to not open the door or you will set off the alarm. One older woman who has had her hip replaced got there before they opened it from the inside, and she walked all the way around the building, and then went up the steps to the door, and then down the stairs to the church hall. I basically sat in my car until I saw that someone had opened it. At least she got to leave with me, so she didn't have to struggle up the stairs too. I did try to ask the incoming president about the situation. Her husband was the main force behind it. I asked her what was happening, who was breaking in, and she wouldn't say. She did say that the church is in so much financial trouble that it has been given 3 years to get solvent or it will be closed and sold. We are short exactly the same amount of money that the church used to get from the Casinos. Now that the Archbishop has finally put an end to all Catholic involvement in the Casinos, the church can't pay its electric bill.

I'm seriously concerned about the lack of stewardship of finances.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1323488593' post='2348357']
I went over last night for the first time since the change. I had to chair the women's meeting. I'm still president for another month. They have added a new sign to the exterior elevator door. It basically says to not open the door or you will set off the alarm. One older woman who has had her hip replaced got there before they opened it from the inside, and she walked all the way around the building, and then went up the steps to the door, and then down the stairs to the church hall. I basically sat in my car until I saw that someone had opened it. At least she got to leave with me, so she didn't have to struggle up the stairs too. I did try to ask the incoming president about the situation. Her husband was the main force behind it. I asked her what was happening, who was breaking in, and she wouldn't say. She did say that the church is in so much financial trouble that it has been given 3 years to get solvent or it will be closed and sold. We are short exactly the same amount of money that the church used to get from the Casinos. Now that the Archbishop has finally put an end to all Catholic involvement in the Casinos, the church can't pay its electric bill.

I'm seriously concerned about the lack of stewardship of finances.
[/quote]


Just because a person is a good Catholic, doesn't mean they are good with finances. It probably isn't easy to find people to take on some of the responsibilities who are actually competent at the work!

PS - by the way Catherine, I am really enjoying your book. I am about halfway through and want to make it last! Thank you for your generosity.

Edited December 10, 2011 by nunsense