Occupy Movement Vis A Vis The Tea Partiers

[Papist]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1321314113' post='2336324']
Hmm an Occupy Wall Street thread. I'm going to take a stab at guessing the outcome here:
1) The same moderates will try to take the middle ground and eventually give up in frustration that no one is listening to them
2) The same liberals will be called names or made fun of for their nationality and told therefore that they don't understand anything and eventually quit in frustration.
3) The same conservatives will continue to refuse to acknowledge anything other than their own point of view and continue to espouse views that fall just short of declaring the Occupy movement to be Satan-inspired, but won't stop posting until the liberals and moderates have quit in disgust...and might continue posting after that to show how "correct" they are.

As to the myth of "liberal media". Off the top of my head, some conservative media (individual commentators given if they have books or aren't affiliated to my knowledge with a particular news network):
Fox News
Drudge Report
Americans United
Free Republic
Wall Street Journal
Accuracy in Media
The Conservative Voice
Newsmax
National Review Online
World Net Daily
Rush Limbaugh
Michael Savage
Ann Coulter
Glenn Beck
The Washington Times
The Weekly Standard
The New American
and of course, owner of a couple of my list, NewsCorp. by Rupert Murdoch

All that said, my time in this thread is done. I've got a conference Wednesday through Saturday and won't be on PM those days.
[/quote]
So there is only 3 political worldviews? Someone that doesn't support OWSers and their conduct is a conservative? I don't get it.

[Papist]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1321330085' post='2336436']

I didn't say the Tea Party wasn't grassroots, I'm just saying that since its inception it's generally moved away from being grassroots and the loudest voices in it are now politicians. Politicians have a harder time associating with the Occupy movement in the same way Tea Party politicians associate with their movement because the Occupy movement has vocally rejected anyone who says that they speak for them. There are far more politicians that can say "I'm a Tea Partier," while other politicians can say that they sympathize with the Occupy movement or that they support the cause, but they can't say that they're part of the 99%. It's a small and subtle but, I think, important difference. But I guess it's also fair to note that the Tea Party has been around much longer than Occupy, so we don't know where the Occupy movement is going to go next, particularly because it looks like some of the larger groups are finally being forced to disband.

My point about the crimes associated with the Occupy Movement is that the movement shouldn't be judged solely by them. Particularly the most overreaching message of the movement, that those in power have mismanaged their authority and shirked their responsibility to the people.

And yes, it is horrific. That kind of patriotism re-interprets history in ways that aren't intellectually sound. That kind of fundamentalist Christianity espouses that we must all be born again and that the Bible is the literal word of God. Obviously I'm generalizing, and doesn't apply to every single member of the Tea Party.
[/quote]
I believe politicians are not jumping on the OWS bandwagon b/c of the OWSers behavior.

I still don't understand the link to fundamentalist Christianity here.

[dominicansoul]

[b]how does squatting in public parks stop greed?[/b] It seems to only rile up the anger and disgust of other law-abiding citizens.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1321314113' post='2336324']
Hmm an Occupy Wall Street thread. I'm going to take a stab at guessing the outcome here:
1) The same moderates will try to take the middle ground and eventually give up in frustration that no one is listening to them
2) The same liberals will be called names or made fun of for their nationality and told therefore that they don't understand anything and eventually quit in frustration.
3) The same conservatives will continue to refuse to acknowledge anything other than their own point of view and continue to espouse views that fall just short of declaring the Occupy movement to be Satan-inspired, but won't stop posting until the liberals and moderates have quit in disgust...and might continue posting after that to show how "correct" they are.

As to the myth of "liberal media". Off the top of my head, some conservative media (individual commentators given if they have books or aren't affiliated to my knowledge with a particular news network):
Fox News
Drudge Report
Americans United
Free Republic
Wall Street Journal
Accuracy in Media
The Conservative Voice
Newsmax
National Review Online
World Net Daily
Rush Limbaugh
Michael Savage
Ann Coulter
Glenn Beck
The Washington Times
The Weekly Standard
The New American
and of course, owner of a couple of my list, NewsCorp. by Rupert Murdoch

All that said, my time in this thread is done. I've got a conference Wednesday through Saturday and won't be on PM those days.
[/quote]


lets all hold hands and sing this song together...


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8_FOQ7-P30"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8_FOQ7-P30[/url]

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1321359654' post='2336486']
I believe politicians are not jumping on the OWS bandwagon b/c of the OWSers behavior.

I still don't understand the link to fundamentalist Christianity here.
[/quote]

Okay. That's one opinion.

Fundamentalist Christianity in the Tea Party. Not OWS.

[Papist]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1321370889' post='2336533']
Fundamentalist Christianity in the Tea Party. Not OWS.
[/quote]
What does this imply about the Tea Party? And not he OWS?

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1321371418' post='2336538']
What does this imply about the Tea Party? And not he OWS?
[/quote]

The particular kind of patriotism and fundamentalist Christianity promoted by some members of the Tea Party strikes me as promoting ignorance and shunning intellectual discussion. I used these people as an example of how an unsavory part of a group shouldn't be held up as an example of the whole.

[Papist]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1321372143' post='2336543']

The particular kind of patriotism and fundamentalist Christianity promoted by some members of the Tea Party strikes me as promoting ignorance and shunning intellectual discussion. I used these people as an example of how an unsavory part of a group shouldn't be held up as an example of the whole.
[/quote]
Sorry, but maybe I have not been exposed to many of Tea Party gatherings, but do not see nor hear what you are proclaiming.

[Basilisa Marie]

Fair enough. I could be reading too much between the lines here: [url="http://www.teaparty.org/about.php"]http://www.teaparty.org/about.php[/url]

[Papist]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1321373040' post='2336548']
Fair enough. I could be reading too much between the lines here: [url="http://www.teaparty.org/about.php"]http://www.teaparty.org/about.php[/url]
[/quote]
I think it is just they are pissed off, just as the OWS are. And when people are pissed long enough, they tend to lose some control, which both groups are guilty of. It is just from where I sit, OWSers are more out of control and unreasonable.

[dominicansoul]

[url="http://www.mydesert.com/article/20111115/NEWS11/111115002/Riot-police-clear-Occupy-protesters-from-NYC-park?odyssey=nav%7Chead"]http://www.mydesert.com/article/20111115/NEWS11/111115002/Riot-police-clear-Occupy-protesters-from-NYC-park?odyssey=nav%7Chead[/url]


to me it would make much more sense if the protesters occupied corporate office parking lots or buildings... they wouldn't last there, but they would probably manage to disrupt one day of work.. iono... occupying a public park??? what does that do to change greedy men's hearts???

[dominicansoul]

maybe the tea party has better advice for the OWS protesters??? like, maybe, keeping protests legal and thus, more effective??? it just seems like this disruption hasn't affected the rich, as it has affected average American citizens... who are getting pretty tired of the occupations...

[she_who_is_not]

I think the problem with both the tea party movement and the OWS movement is the lack of careful and thoughtful consideration of the problems facing this country. They both stem from the concept that some entity, the government, the corporate world, ancient aliens and so forth are responsible and can fix something. My general impression of both movements is a bunch of people getting together to whine, "It's not fair" I don't think it is a matter of right or left. I don't think either group at their base level is composed of people who understand the complex details involved in governing the country. I don't think the either group at their base understands basic concepts of taxation, corporate structure, debt systems, or the institutionalization of poverty. I don't think we stand a chance as a middle class when we make either the poor or the rich "the enemy." What I would like to see is some honest searching. Politicians in search of solutions to make America stronger. We are going to have to make tough choices. At the end of the day, we are going to have increase revenue and cut spending. I think it would be razzle dazzle if people spent some time thinking of some creative ways to accomplish this, rather than raising income tax rates or cutting programs for the neediest. We need to find a way to respect one another as Americans again. I want to respect my government and I want to respect my neighbor, whether he owns his own business or draws an unemployment check. This change begins with me and reframing how I view those in different circumstances than myself. I do fear, however, that if the current political dialogue continues in this way, the middle class will be the biggest losers.

[Papist]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1321377333' post='2336559']
[url="http://www.mydesert.com/article/20111115/NEWS11/111115002/Riot-police-clear-Occupy-protesters-from-NYC-park?odyssey=nav%7Chead"]http://www.mydesert....ssey=nav%7Chead[/url]


to me it would make much more sense if the protesters occupied corporate office parking lots or buildings... they wouldn't last there, but they would probably manage to disrupt one day of work.. iono... occupying a public park??? what does that do to change greedy men's hearts???
[/quote]
Also, they should occupy the Universities and Colleges. The increase in tuition and books in the past 20 years is insane. My nephew attends a small NC state school and his books cost more than double my tuition from 20 years ago. Those greedy Universities and Colleges need to pay their fair share of taxes and let everyone go to school free.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='she_who_is_not' timestamp='1321381237' post='2336582']
I think the problem with both the tea party movement and the OWS movement is the lack of careful and thoughtful consideration of the problems facing this country. They both stem from the concept that some entity, the government, the corporate world, ancient aliens and so forth are responsible and can fix something. My general impression of both movements is a bunch of people getting together to whine, "It's not fair" I don't think it is a matter of right or left. I don't think either group at their base level is composed of people who understand the complex details involved in governing the country. I don't think the either group at their base understands basic concepts of taxation, corporate structure, debt systems, or the institutionalization of poverty. I don't think we stand a chance as a middle class when we make either the poor or the rich "the enemy." What I would like to see is some honest searching. Politicians in search of solutions to make America stronger. We are going to have to make tough choices. At the end of the day, we are going to have increase revenue and cut spending. I think it would be razzle dazzle if people spent some time thinking of some creative ways to accomplish this, rather than raising income tax rates or cutting programs for the neediest. We need to find a way to respect one another as Americans again. I want to respect my government and I want to respect my neighbor, whether he owns his own business or draws an unemployment check. This change begins with me and reframing how I view those in different circumstances than myself. I do fear, however, that if the current political dialogue continues in this way, the middle class will be the biggest losers.
[/quote]
How do you define middle-class: Income? Education? Neighborhood? Values? Culture?