Occupy Movement Vis A Vis The Tea Partiers

[4588686]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1322264646' post='2340471']
[url="http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx"]Media Bias Is Real, Finds UCLA Political Scientists[/url]
[/quote]


I think this pretty soundly tears apart the methodology that the authors of the study use.

[url="http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001169.html"]http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001169.html[/url]

I stumbled across it by accident but it looks pretty good.

[4588686]

Uh oh. Looks like the linguist can't read statistics.

[url="http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001301.html"]http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001301.html[/url]

I haven't found the actual paper so it's hard to know who is right. Both seem convincing. Intuitively, I find the rebuttal paper more convincing. It looks to me like the Linguist read the abstract and avoided the serious stats which meant all he did was persuasively knocked down a straw horse or a caricature of their argument.


I'm a bit uneasy of their methodology, as they describe it. It seems like a potentially brilliant approach but one that could be fraught with small pitfalls that make a big difference. It would be interesting to see any rebuttals by scholars who actually specialize in media analysis and have a solid background in states. Nevertheless, it seems to be some pretty convincing evidence of systematic bias in the media of a particularly political nature.

Or it would be. While this may seem like a pretty important study that lends serious credence to the claim that their is a liberal bias in the media, Socrates already brilliantly proved that it is a priori quite impossible to conduct a scholarly study of media bias. Therefore this study is logically impossible and therefore obviously flawed.

[dominicansoul]

[Socrates]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1322264107' post='2340468']

Maybe. If only there were methods of investigating this and coming to come emperically supported, logically argued conclusion. But as you have proven there is no possible way to prove or disprove this assertion.



Nope. Try rereading the article. Maybe that will help.[/quote]
I did read it. The survey's all based on "self-evaluations" and other subjective measures, and does not even address actual media content. It doesn't refute a single thing I said.


[quote]I know. Unfortunately, like your shiitake mushroom argument which you avoided defending, my mullet remains.[/quote]
Shiitake mushrooms are tasty.


[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1322264646' post='2340471']
[url="http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/Media-Bias-Is-Real-Finds-UCLA-6664.aspx"]Media Bias Is Real, Finds UCLA Political Scientists[/url]
[/quote]
Obviously, those UCLA profs are just a bunch of petty masochist right-wingers.

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1322297377' post='2340693']
I find it a little funny that people, especially Tea Party supporters think that because some of what OWS is doing is illegal, that it is also immoral. Or an invitation for police violence.

Last i checked, the American Revolution, and the Boston Tea Party were both highly illegal, yet lauded by that same group.

Not to mention the non violent Civil Rights movement(who were also brutalized by the police) was illegal.
[/quote]

I know right just like the American Revolution, just like the Tea Party, just like the Civil Rights movement....

[quote]

New York: 10/11/2011 — [url="http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/209706.php"]“You Can Have Sex with Animals.”[/url]

Baltimore: 10/18/2011 — [url="http://biggovernment.com/dhunter/2011/10/18/occupybaltimore-discourages-sexual-assault-victims-from-contacting-police-offers-counseling-for-perpetrators/"]#OccupyBaltimore Discourages Sexual Assault Victims from Contacting Police[/url]

Oakland: 10/19/2011 — [url="http://www.breitbart.tv/occupyoakland-out-of-control-rats-graffiti-vandalism-sexual-harassment-public-sex-and-urination/"]#OccupyOakland Out of Control: Rats, Graffiti, Vandalism, Sexual Harassment, Public Sex and Urination[/url]

Dallas: 10/24/2011 — [url="http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2011/10/24/accusations-of-teen-runaway-sexual-activity-at-occupy-dallas"]Police Investigating Possible Sexual Assault Of Teen At Occupy Dallas[/url]

Lawrence, KS: 10/25/2011 — [url="http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2011/oct/25/occupy-lawrence-members-report-crimes-south-park-c/"]Sexual Assault Reported at Occupy Camp[/url]

Ottawa: 10/31/2011 — #[url="http://ironicsurrealism.com/2011/10/31/video-occupyottawa-assaults-including-sexual-are-not-reported-to-police/"]OccupyOttawa Violent & Sexual Assaults Not Reported to Police[/url]

Manchester, NH: 10/28/2011 — [url="http://www.unionleader.com/article/20111028/NEWS03/710289961"]Woman charged with pimping teen recruited at Occupy NH rally[/url]

Dallas, TX: 1v1/1/2011: [url="http://www.wfaa.com/news/crime/Occupy-Dallas-man-arrested-for-sexual-assault-133033828.html"]Man Arrested for Child Sex assault at Occupy Dallas Camp[/url]

Portland, OR: 10/27/2011 — [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=T1BWETV75hU#%21"]Sexual Assault: ‘nobody should contact the police’[/url] — Video

St. Louis, MO: 11/18/2011 — [url="http://bigjournalism.com/dloesch/2011/11/18/why-did-it-take-media-10-days-to-report-a-sexual-assault-at-occupystl/"]Woman Sexually Assaulted[/url]

Chicago, IL: 11/16/2011 — [url="http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/11/occupy-chicago-protester-arrested-on-child-porn-charges/"]Occupier Arrested for Child Porn[/url]

Los Angeles, CA: 11/15/2011 – [url="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/11/occupy-la-five-charged-with-crimes.html"]Occupier Charged With Masturbating In Front of Children[/url]

Melbourne, AU: 11/18/2011 — [url="http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/drugs-claim-at-occupy-protests-20111117-1nl2q.html"]Children as Young as 12 Given Drugs, Alcohol[/url]

Seattle: 10/18/2011 — [url="http://www.komonews.com/news/local/132064518.html"]Man Accused of Exposing Self to Children Arrested[/url]

Cleveland: 10/18/2011 — ‘[url="http://cleveland.cbslocal.com/2011/10/18/occupy-cleveland-protester-alleges-she-was-raped/"]Occupy Cleveland’ Protester Alleges She Was Raped[/url]

New York: 10/25/2011 — [url="http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/occupy_wall_street/2011/10/25/2011-10-25_three_men_wanted_for_threatening_to_kill_a_24yearold_occupy_wall_street_proteste.html"]Three Men Threatened to Kill 24-Year-Old Occupy Wall Street Protester for Reporting Rape[/url]

Boston: 10/20/2011 — [url="http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katehicks/2011/10/20/whoa_occupy_baltimore_doesnt_want_police_involved_for_rape"]Occupy Boston Doesn’t Want Police Involved in Rape[/url]

source: http://bigjournalism.com/jjmnolte/2011/10/28/occupywallstreet-the-rap-sheet-so-far/
[/quote]

[Socrates]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1322297377' post='2340693']
I find it a little funny that people, especially Tea Party supporters think that because some of what OWS is doing is illegal, that it is also immoral. Or an invitation for police violence.

Last i checked, the American Revolution, and the Boston Tea Party were both highly illegal, yet lauded by that same group.

Not to mention the non violent Civil Rights movement(who were also brutalized by the police) was illegal.
[/quote]
The various Communist Revolutions around the world were also highly illegal, for that matter. Your point being? Every illegal mob activity should be supported?


Plenty of what the OWS crowd was doing is immoral. If you want details, I need only refer you to the[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/116908-occupy-movement-vis-a-vis-the-tea-partiers/page__view__findpost__p__2337805"] list of links Kamiller posted[/url]. And some of those things are also illegal (and it's also immoral to disobey laws unless they are inherently unjust, which the laws being broken by the OWS mob are not). And the deliberate provocation of police by the Wall-stockers has likewise been well-documented already.

Sorry, but I have yet to see one good fruit come out of this OWS nonsense, nor have I seen any reason for me or anyone else to support or approve of it. It's worse than useless.

[Socrates]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1322445359' post='2341383']

I know right just like the American Revolution, just like the Tea Party, just like the Civil Rights movement....
[/quote]
Yeah, they're all exactly the same . . .

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1322445359' post='2341383']

I know right just like the American Revolution, just like the Tea Party, just like the Civil Rights movement....
[/quote]

Lol yeah i bet there were NO rapes during the american revolution, or people calling for the death of public figures or groups.



[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1322445833' post='2341388']
The various Communist Revolutions around the world were also highly illegal, for that matter. Your point being? Every illegal mob activity should be supported?
[/quote]

you see, this is the sort of "logical" jump that would probably make me cry if i read it in one of my old posts.

the answer is No. The fact that something is illegal does not automatically make it immoral or wrong, does NOT mean that just because something is illegal it automatically makes it moral or right.
It simply means that a given thing cannot be defined as immoral based on its legality alone, and i would think that a catholic, prolifer would have a firm grip on that particular concept.


[quote]
Yeah, they're all exactly the same...[/quote]

Aside from the fact that no one has said that... im sure there is no way you could draw a parallel between them for stuff like taxation without adequate representation, government protected monopolies and unbalanced application of the law between different social classes.

[Papist]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1322462987' post='2341523']
Lol yeah i bet there were NO rapes during the american revolution, or people calling for the death of public figures or groups.
[/quote]
But your honor, I am a revolutionary, therefore I can rape. Some how, I don't think a Judge will accept that.

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1322462987' post='2341523']

the answer is No. The fact that something is illegal does not automatically make it immoral or wrong, does NOT mean that just because something is illegal it automatically makes it moral or right.

It simply means that a given thing cannot be defined as immoral based on its legality alone, and i would think that a catholic, prolifer would have a firm grip on that particular concept.
[/quote]
The laws being immoral does not make it acceptable to protest/fight these laws with immorality. Our actions must remain moral no matter how grave the injustice is. As a Catholic, I know this.


[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1322462987' post='2341523']
Aside from the fact that no one has said that... im sure there is no way you could draw a parallel between them for stuff like taxation without adequate representation, government protected monopolies and unbalanced application of the law between different social classes.
[/quote]
Here, I do agree. The social class paying the majority of the nation's taxes are getting screwed.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Papist

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='Papist' timestamp='1322488555' post='2341572']
The laws being immoral does not make it acceptable to protest/fight these laws with immorality. Our actions must remain moral no matter how grave the injustice is. As a Catholic, I know this.
[/quote]
You aren't listening to what he's saying.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1322462987' post='2341523']

Lol yeah i bet there were NO rapes during the american revolution[/quote]
To my knowledge none of the protesting by the American patriots involved rape.

Sorry, but if you want to make such an accusation, the burden of proof is on you to prove that rapes did in fact occur.

But if that's the game you want to play, LOl yeah i bet you never ever raped anyone. I'd like to see you prove that. lulz




[quote]. . . It simply means that a given thing cannot be defined as immoral based on its legality alone, and i would think that a catholic, prolifer would have a firm grip on that particular concept. . . .[/quote]
And that was an argument no one was making, certainly not myself. But that was a cute strawman you just knocked over.



[quote]Aside from the fact that no one has said that... im sure there is no way you could draw a parallel between them for stuff like taxation without adequate representation, government protected monopolies and unbalanced application of the law between different social classes.[/quote]
Draw all the parallels you like. It doesn't mean they have substance. The American patriots were fighting [i]against[/i] taxation without representation, while the OWS crowd (at least those that have articulated anything on the topic) want [i]more[/i] taxation on select classes of people. The American Patriots (and the modern-day "Tea Party" movement) want [i]lower[/i] taxes and [i]less[/i] government, while the OWS crowd calls for [i]more[/i] government power (all for the purpose of punishing the rich, of course). Neither did the American Revolution have anything to do with class warfare or redistribution of wealth. Every time a revolution has occurred calling for forcible government redistribution of wealth and class warfare, it has resulted in bloody tyranny, and poverty for all but a government elite. But I'm just repeating myself here, and see no point in doing so again.