Occupy Movement Vis A Vis The Tea Partiers

[dairygirl4u2c]

ty

[Basilisa Marie]

That's a gross generalization, of both the Tea Party and the Occupy movement. There are plenty of differences between the nature of the two. If anything, they're similar in the sense that the Tea Party is a dissatisfied faction of the right that has been gaining political clout and the Occupy movement is a dissatisfied faction backed by the left that has been gaining attention from the media. One was formed because someone was dissatisfied with the Republican Party, the other because people were unsatisfied with the way corporations were handling money.

But then I have far more sympathy for the Occupy Movement than the Tea Party.

[Ed Normile]

Lets see, the Occupy movement illegally squats on public properties while the Tea party people meet in places they have obtained proper permits for. The Occupy group has been arrested en masse due to their illegal practises while the Tea party group has been arrest free. The Occupy group has also had instances of rape, murder and of course public indecency and morals charges as well as leaving piles of garbage abd destruction of property, the Tea party group has been orderly, lawful and moral and clean up after their events.

Its hard to imagine how anyone outside the liberal media could even mention the two groups together in the same sentence.

ed

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1321254660' post='2336082']
Lets see, the Occupy movement illegally squats on public properties while the Tea party people meet in places they have obtained proper permits for. The Occupy group has been arrested en masse due to their illegal practises while the Tea party group has been arrest free. The Occupy group has also had instances of rape, murder and of course public indecency and morals charges as well as leaving piles of garbage abd destruction of property, the Tea party group has been orderly, lawful and moral and clean up after their events.

Its hard to imagine how anyone outside the liberal media could even mention the two groups together in the same sentence.

ed
[/quote]

Last time I checked, the so-called "Liberal Media" is the one reporting all the terrible things people do who have been associated with the Occupy Movement, and have very little good to say about it from the beginning. The Tea Party movement is far more organized than the Occupy Movement because the Occupy Movement is much more grassroots from the general population instead of headed by politicians trying to differentiate themselves from the Republican Party. When you have something arising from the general population, you're going to get occasional acts of violence. Yes, many groups are "squatting" on public property, but it's an act of civil disobedience. That's also why so many people have been arrested, not because everyone is raping and murdering. But if one is going to characterize the entire movement based on the actions of a few, then I could just as easily say that the Tea Party is a xenophobic product of a frightening marriage between patriotism and fundamentalist American Christianity. But that wouldn't be fair to Tea Partiers or the Tea Party, just as writing off the Occupy Movement from the actions of a few isn't fair.

[Papist]

I have not seen Tea Partyers use children to blockade doors to buildings.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1321284917' post='2336144']

Last time I checked, the so-called "Liberal Media" is the one reporting all the terrible things people do who have been associated with the Occupy Movement, and have very little good to say about it from the beginning. The Tea Party movement is far more organized than the Occupy Movement because the Occupy Movement is much more grassroots from the general population instead of headed by politicians trying to differentiate themselves from the Republican Party. When you have something arising from the general population, you're going to get occasional acts of violence. Yes, many groups are "squatting" on public property, but it's an act of civil disobedience. That's also why so many people have been arrested, not because everyone is raping and murdering. But if one is going to characterize the entire movement based on the actions of a few, then I could just as easily say that the Tea Party is a xenophobic product of a frightening marriage between patriotism and fundamentalist American Christianity. But that wouldn't be fair to Tea Partiers or the Tea Party, just as writing off the Occupy Movement from the actions of a few isn't fair.
[/quote]
The problem is that is NOT just a "few" members of the Occupiers who are criminals its the majority of them because they are blocking traffic, restricting the rights of legitimate businesses to operate, disturbing the peace, ruining public parks, vandaling private property and generally making nuisances of themselves. NOBODY has the right to take over public parks or buildings and if they do they should spend the night in jail.

[Socrates]

"Protesting" something doesn't give you the right to squat on and abuse public property. I definitely see no proportionate reason to justify such "civil disobedience."

[Socrates]

[quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1321284917' post='2336144']

Last time I checked, the so-called "Liberal Media" is the one reporting all the terrible things people do who have been associated with the Occupy Movement, and have very little good to say about it from the beginning. The Tea Party movement is far more organized than the Occupy Movement because the Occupy Movement is much more grassroots from the general population instead of headed by politicians trying to differentiate themselves from the Republican Party[/quote]
The Tea Party movement started off as a grass roots movement, though politicians have linked themselves to it, just as politicians (including Dear Leader) have tried to associate themselves with the OWS movement.

Something being grassroots does not explain away or excuse disgusting and unlawful behavior. The pro-life movement is grassroots, yet pro-life protesters as a group are much better behaved and law-abiding.


[quote]. . . .a frightening marriage between patriotism and fundamentalist American Christianity. . . .[/quote]

The horror! The horror!

[BG45]

Hmm an Occupy Wall Street thread. I'm going to take a stab at guessing the outcome here:
1) The same moderates will try to take the middle ground and eventually give up in frustration that no one is listening to them
2) The same liberals will be called names or made fun of for their nationality and told therefore that they don't understand anything and eventually quit in frustration.
3) The same conservatives will continue to refuse to acknowledge anything other than their own point of view and continue to espouse views that fall just short of declaring the Occupy movement to be Satan-inspired, but won't stop posting until the liberals and moderates have quit in disgust...and might continue posting after that to show how "correct" they are.

As to the myth of "liberal media". Off the top of my head, some conservative media (individual commentators given if they have books or aren't affiliated to my knowledge with a particular news network):
Fox News
Drudge Report
Americans United
Free Republic
Wall Street Journal
Accuracy in Media
The Conservative Voice
Newsmax
National Review Online
World Net Daily
Rush Limbaugh
Michael Savage
Ann Coulter
Glenn Beck
The Washington Times
The Weekly Standard
The New American
and of course, owner of a couple of my list, NewsCorp. by Rupert Murdoch

All that said, my time in this thread is done. I've got a conference Wednesday through Saturday and won't be on PM those days.

[ardillacid]

Yeah, conservatives are the bad guys. Thanks for the enlightenment.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1321322074' post='2336378']
Yeah, conservatives are the bad guys. Thanks for the enlightenment.
[/quote]

[img]http://design.sva.edu/site/sva_assets/0000/0225/blinders_prototype_horiz602.jpg[/img]

You filthy hipster.

[BG45]

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1321322074' post='2336378']
Yeah, conservatives are the bad guys. Thanks for the enlightenment.
[/quote]
Perhaps I should have better phrased it as "many of the conservatives here, based on the previous Occupy thread". By the way, razzle dazzle reply bro. Very nice and passive aggressive. I apologize for replying, but it was evident you either didn't read my post in its entirety, or you just wanted to take a cheap shot at someone who wasn't going to defend themselves. I refer you to the last part of my post below:

[quote name='BG45' timestamp='1321314113' post='2336324']
All that said, my time in this thread is done. I've got a conference Wednesday through Saturday and won't be on PM those days.
[/quote]


Don't think of this part of my original post as my own parting cheap shot. Think of it more as my view of the political arguments over the Occupy movement that have previously been shown on this board. I guess I'm just too much of an Eisenhower conservative for the Debate Table. That and surprisingly I have better things to do than argue politics with people who are unwilling to listen to one another. A debate requires that both sides listen to one another in order to actually be a debate; I'm not saying the PM liberals have been exactly accommodating either, by the way.

[dairygirl4u2c]

[quote]
I'm going to take a stab at guessing the outcome here:
1) The same moderates will try to take the middle ground and eventually give up in frustration that no one is listening to them
2) The same liberals will be called names or made fun of for their nationality and told therefore that they don't understand anything and eventually quit in frustration.
3) The same conservatives will continue to refuse to acknowledge anything other than their own point of view and continue to espouse views that fall just short of declaring the Occupy movement to be Satan-inspired, but won't stop posting until the liberals and moderates have quit in disgust...and might continue posting after that to show how "correct" they are.

[/quote]

should be posted and pinned, for those wanting to know the outcome of threads, before they even end.

course, it woudln't have to be that way, if people would actually talk to the rational, moderate folk here. instead of being brick walls that do not engage in dialouge, or rational thought really, but rather spout off. you can always spot em, cause they don't engage the decent points, but jump on the weak ones, or the ones that are stereotypes against what their own stereotypical beliefs. yes, often, the cookie cutter conservatives, and liberals. never let a thoughtful rational idea get in the way of anything.

[Basilisa Marie]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1321313389' post='2336317']
The Tea Party movement started off as a grass roots movement, though politicians have linked themselves to it, just as politicians (including Dear Leader) have tried to associate themselves with the OWS movement.

Something being grassroots does not explain away or excuse disgusting and unlawful behavior. The pro-life movement is grassroots, yet pro-life protesters as a group are much better behaved and law-abiding.

The horror! The horror!
[/quote]

I didn't say the Tea Party wasn't grassroots, I'm just saying that since its inception it's generally moved away from being grassroots and the loudest voices in it are now politicians. Politicians have a harder time associating with the Occupy movement in the same way Tea Party politicians associate with their movement because the Occupy movement has vocally rejected anyone who says that they speak for them. There are far more politicians that can say "I'm a Tea Partier," while other politicians can say that they sympathize with the Occupy movement or that they support the cause, but they can't say that they're part of the 99%. It's a small and subtle but, I think, important difference. But I guess it's also fair to note that the Tea Party has been around much longer than Occupy, so we don't know where the Occupy movement is going to go next, particularly because it looks like some of the larger groups are finally being forced to disband.

My point about the crimes associated with the Occupy Movement is that the movement shouldn't be judged solely by them. Particularly the most overreaching message of the movement, that those in power have mismanaged their authority and shirked their responsibility to the people.

And yes, it is horrific. That kind of patriotism re-interprets history in ways that aren't intellectually sound. That kind of fundamentalist Christianity espouses that we must all be born again and that the Bible is the literal word of God. Obviously I'm generalizing, and doesn't apply to every single member of the Tea Party.

[arfink]

This whole conversation on Occupy has been one big TL:DR. In that spirit all I have to say is:






TL:DR. Now on to something else...
[img]https://renaissanceronin.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/angry_mob.png[/img]