Does Celibacy Lead To Homosexual And Pedophile Behavior By Priests?

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1320813207' post='2333575']

I think that for the sake of the young boys in the Catholic church -- as well as the reputation and success of the Catholic church -- no homosexuals should be admitted to the priesthood.
[/quote]
The reputation according to who? The media? Members of the Church? Society-at-large?

[southern california guy]

[quote name='USAirwaysIHS' timestamp='1320817827' post='2333628']
The reputation according to who? The media? Members of the Church? Society-at-large?
[/quote]

I'm thinking of the media and society-at-large. The reason that the Catholic church has gotten so much media attention is because of the [b][i]homosexual[/i][/b] nature of the abuse. It's something weird that catches peoples attention -- so it makes the news.

Let's stop calling it "sexual abuse"! Words are extremely important! Let's call the abusive Priests [b]homosexual[/b] [b]pedophiles[/b]. And lets compare [b]homosexual[/b] [b]pedophiles[/b] within the church with [b]homosexua[/b]l [b]pedophiles[/b] outside of the church. There is no good reason to give it a vague title like "sexual abuse" -- other than to be able to compare it with something different.

The "sexual abuse" of heterosexuals engaging in underage sex is a bad thing --[b] BUT IT IS NOT THE SAME AS HOMOSEXUAL PEDOPHILE ABUSE![/b]

However I will acknowledge that I am writing this from a non-Catholic position. I was raised in the Catholic church but I checked out other religions later on and even crossed the line and considered some of the atheist arguments. I can relate to the different points of view and perspectives and they are so different that they almost can't be debated.

Here's an example.

An atheist would argue that Catholics believe that Priests are given supernatural help from God so that they can remain celibate. They would argue that Catholics believe that God is capable of anything -- thus the name "God". They would ask why God did not keep these Priests celibate, and allowed his church on earth to acquire such a bad reputation. And they would ask that if Catholics believe that God can do anything then why don't the Catholics pray to God that he change these men from homosexuals to heterosexuals -- since he can do anything. And why would he only grant the wish that they remain celibate and not the wish that they become heterosexual -- and lose these perverted desires. They would ask why the Catholics put limits on the abilities of God? Do they not really believe that God is all powerful? Does that make any logical sense? And they would ask why does the Catholic church have to make changes? Did the people who died before the new changes miss out? Because it's been like a different religion during different times of history.

A Catholic would argue that it doesn't work that way, and as human beings we have a free will. They would argue that God can only work the good in peoples life that they allow God to. And they will always have "weaknesses" because they are human and Satan can be as much of an influence to them as God. And that humans are always in a constant battle between allowing God to work in their lives and allowing Satan. They would argue that as human beings we have a limited ability to discern Gods will and that changes in the Catholic church result from better clarifications of Gods will. At least that would be how I might have argued it.

But you can see the completely different perspectives. And you can see how neither position really considers the others arguments.

[cruciatacara]

hey sc guy - what's the actual point of this thread? You keep beating the same dead horse over and over again about how homosexuality and pedophilia are some kind of direct result of celibacy and ignoring all the posts that show there is no direct correlation. Some celibate priests are homosexuals and some are not, not abuse and some do not. You don't seem to have a shread of proof about causation here and yet you keep repeating the same thing as if just saying it enough times will prove your point. Doesn't the whole Penn State thing show that celibacy isn't the cause of homosexual pedophilia? Heterosexuals, bisexuals, married, celibate - pedophilia isn't 'caused' by any of these things....

Do you really have a point to this? Or is it just that you have a personal problem with celibacy so you want to make it look like some kind of aberratioin in itself? You claim to be celibate -- so are you a homosexual pedophile at heart too?

Come on.... let it die. You haven't got a case here.

[Vincent Vega]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1321068066' post='2335219']

I'm thinking of the media and society-at-large. The reason that the Catholic church has gotten so much media attention is because of the [b][i]homosexual[/i][/b] nature of the abuse. It's something weird that catches peoples attention -- so it makes the news.
[/quote]
I have an issue with doing [i]any [/i]P.R. work to make the church look better to media and to society. They are two diametrically opposed forces, and to pander to the whims of society produces no good fruit (look at the more "progressive" protestant sects).

[southern california guy]

[quote name='cruciatacara' timestamp='1321069824' post='2335232']
hey sc guy - what's the actual point of this thread? You keep beating the same dead horse over and over again about how homosexuality and pedophilia are some kind of direct result of celibacy and ignoring all the posts that show there is no direct correlation. Some celibate priests are homosexuals and some are not, not abuse and some do not. You don't seem to have a shread of proof about causation here and yet you keep repeating the same thing as if just saying it enough times will prove your point. Doesn't the whole Penn State thing show that celibacy isn't the cause of homosexual pedophilia? Heterosexuals, bisexuals, married, celibate - pedophilia isn't 'caused' by any of these things....

Do you really have a point to this? Or is it just that you have a personal problem with celibacy so you want to make it look like some kind of aberratioin in itself? You claim to be celibate -- so are you a homosexual pedophile at heart too?

Come on.... let it die. You haven't got a case here.
[/quote]

The abusers in the Catholic church are homosexuals. If the Catholic church was somehow able to get rid of all of the homosexual Priests then the sodomy would be eliminated.

But getting rid of all of the homosexuals would be close to impossible because a "homosexual" doesn't have a certain look. Perhaps they seek out the Catholic priesthood to hide their homosexuality? Then people don't notice that they're not married or in any relationships with women?

I think that the only way to get rid of the Priests who sodomize boys is to allow Priests to marry. Then the homosexuals couldn't hide in the Catholic priesthood any easier than any other part of society. Of course not all single men are homosexuals -- but you know what I'm saying.

And the taboo question is whether some people are truly born homosexual or if their environment shapes them? Men who have been molested are much more likely to become homosexuals as adults. And if people aren't born that way and acquire this perversion -- then what sort of factors can lead to the development of it? I suggested that celibacy in men -- or an attempt to live their entire life celibately -- could be a factor in some men. And if this is indeed the case then the Catholic church is making a big mistake by not allowing the Priests the option of marriage.

[Jaime]

[quote]The "sexual abuse" of heterosexuals engaging in underage sex is a bad thing --[b] BUT IT IS NOT THE SAME AS HOMOSEXUAL PEDOPHILE ABUSE![/b]
[/quote]

That is just completely messed up.

[organwerke]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1321134821' post='2335503']

The abusers in the Catholic church are homosexuals. If the Catholic church was somehow able to get rid of all of the homosexual Priests then the sodomy would be eliminated.

But getting rid of all of the homosexuals would be close to impossible because a "homosexual" doesn't have a certain look. Perhaps they seek out the Catholic priesthood to hide their homosexuality? Then people don't notice that they're not married or in any relationships with women?

I think that the only way to get rid of the Priests who sodomize boys is to allow Priests to marry. Then the homosexuals couldn't hide in the Catholic priesthood any easier than any other part of society. Of course not all single men are homosexuals -- but you know what I'm saying.

And the taboo question is whether some people are truly born homosexual or if their environment shapes them? Men who have been molested are much more likely to become homosexuals as adults. And if people aren't born that way and acquire this perversion -- then what sort of factors can lead to the development of it? I suggested that celibacy in men -- or an attempt to live their entire life celibately -- could be a factor in some men. And if this is indeed the case then the Catholic church is making a big mistake by not allowing the Priests the option of marriage.
[/quote]

Do you read your posts and see the empty things you are saying?
First of all, abusers in the Catholic Church are mainly homosexuals, but, sadly, not only. Sadly there were also young women who were abused by priests (I know a few examples and I suppose there are others).
And why the hell do you think that homsexual paedophilia is worse than heterosexual paedophilia? Why this (as you say in a previous post) doesn't bother you as much: because heterosexual paedophilia doesn't bother your personal tastes and your personal theories about homosexuality and celibacy?
Then (and here there is the most stupid thing): do you really think that allowing priests to get married would cancel the problems of paedophilia?
Fisrt of all, as many have shown to you (but evidently you don't read other posts or you don't believe in what others say to you -maybe because only what you think makes a sense to you) there have been abuses also by married people and also by married protestant ministers.
Second, what does tell you that homosexuals don't try to hide their inclination by getting married as they may do applying for Priesthood? I know lots of persons who are gay and who are married.
Third: allowing priests to get married doesn't mean that priests are forced to be married (as it is in any other confession). So the problem of unmarried priests would remain, or would you propose that the Church gives the Priesthood only to married people and priests cannot decide to live celibately if they want to do so?

Edited November 12, 2011 by organwerke

[GeorgiiMichael]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1321134821' post='2335503']

The abusers in the Catholic church are homosexuals ([color=#ff0000]Not true, have you even read the other arguments in this thread? Yes, some are homosexual, but not all abusers are homosexual, by any stretch of the imagination[/color]). If the Catholic church was somehow able to get rid of all of the homosexual Priests then the sodomy would be eliminated ([color=#ff0000]Also not true, come on, man, you can't ignore facts just because they disagree with your viewpoint[/color]).

But getting rid of all of the homosexuals would be close to impossible because a "homosexual" doesn't have a certain look. Perhaps they seek out the Catholic priesthood to hide their homosexuality ([color=#ff0000]Or, you know, maybe they feel called to the priesthood, but no, that couldn't be, they're HOMOSEXUALS! Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds?[/color])? Then people don't notice that they're not married or in any relationships with women?

I think that the only way to get rid of the Priests who sodomize boys is to allow Priests to marry ([color=#ff0000]Nope, sexual abuse in the form of sodomizing young boys happens just as much, if not more so among married men than it does with celibate priests. This was also mentioned using statistics earlier in this thread[/color]). Then the homosexuals couldn't hide in the Catholic priesthood any easier than any other part of society ([color=#ff0000]Yep, because I've never heard of gay men marrying women to hide their sexual orientation /sarcasm[/color]). Of course not all single men are homosexuals -- but you know what I'm saying ([color=#ff0000]No, I really don't. It seems to me like you're an extremely bigoted person who can't see it in his heart to accept all people with Christian charity[/color]).

And the taboo question is whether some people are truly born homosexual or if their environment shapes them? Men who have been molested are much more likely to become homosexuals as adults ([color=#ff0000]This is statistically false[/color]). And if people aren't born that way and acquire this perversion -- then what sort of factors can lead to the development of it? I suggested that celibacy in men -- or an attempt to live their entire life celibately -- could be a factor in some men ([color=#ff0000]This is complete and utter hogwash. You don't "become gay" because of not having sex with women. I've been celibate my entire life, but I still like the ladies and if I didn't marry for another 20 years, through which I would remain celibate as part of respecting the dignity of marriage, I'd still be attracted to the ladies. Assuming that men who [b]choose[/b] to remain celibate for life will "turn gay" is ridiculous. It's not like they don't know what they're getting into[/color]). And if this is indeed the case then the Catholic church is making a big mistake by not allowing the Priests the option of marriage ([color=#ff0000]If that was the case, then yes, you'd be right. Evidence proves that it isn't the case, and so you are wrong[/color]).
[/quote]
My comments in red.

I'm praying for you, SC Guy.

You're argument is inherently flawed because it is [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_ignorance_fallacy"]fallacious[/url]. I vote we close this thread and move on with our lives.

Edited November 12, 2011 by GeorgiiMichael

[Norseman82]

Before this thread gets closed, SCG, I just wanted to point out that the in most eastern rites of the Catholic Church, married men are allowed to be ordained.

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1320813207' post='2333575']
I think that for the sake of the young boys in the Catholic church -- as well as the reputation and success of the Catholic church -- no homosexuals should be admitted to the priesthood. No matter what their intentions are. We can feel sympathetic for them, but I think that the costs outweigh the benefits.
[/quote]

I believe someone already pointed out that Pope Benedict XVI has issued a document basically stating that the priesthood and homosexuality are incompatible, so in this respect you are not in disagreement with the magisterium. Now, how well it is enforced is another matter....

Edited November 13, 2011 by Norseman82

[southern california guy]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1321144629' post='2335573']
Before this thread gets closed, SCG, I just wanted to point out that the in most eastern rites of the Catholic Church, married men are allowed to be ordained.
[/quote]

That is interesting. I didn't know that.

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1321144629' post='2335573']
I believe someone already pointed out that Pope Benedict XVI has issued a document basically stating that the priesthood and homosexuality are incompatible, so in this respect you are not in disagreement with the magisterium. Now, how well it is enforced is another matter....
[/quote]

Yes I've heard that and I agree.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1321144629' post='2335573']
Before this thread gets closed, SCG, I just wanted to point out that the in most eastern rites of the Catholic Church, married men are allowed to be ordained.
[/quote]

Thank you Norseman you brought up a really interesting point and I was able to find a [i]New York Times[/i] story about it.

-----------

[b] Rudno Journal[/b]

[b] A Flock Grows Right at Home for a Priest in Ukraine[/b]

[img]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/03/23/world/23ukraine_CA0/23ukraine_CA0-articleLarge.jpg[/img]
Joseph Sywenkyj for The New York Times
The Rev. Yuriy Volovetskiy and his wife, Vera, prayed at home with two of their six children in Rudno, a suburb of Lviv, the largest city in western Ukraine. [url="http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/03/23/world/europe/20100323UKRAINE_index.html"][color="#004276"]More Photos »[/color][/url]
[b] By [url="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/clifford_j_levy/index.html?inline=nyt-per"][color="#004276"]CLIFFORD J. LEVY[/color][/url][/b]

[b] RUDNO, Ukraine — Let the rest of Europe be [url="http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/12/priests-suggest-celibacy-may-be-a-problem/"][color="#004276"]convulsed by debates[/color][/url] over whether the celibacy of Roman Catholic priests is causing sex abuse scandals like the one now [url="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/13/world/europe/13pope.html"][color="#004276"]unfolding in Germany[/color][/url]. Here in western [url="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/ukraine/index.html?inline=nyt-geo"][color="#004276"]Ukraine[/color][/url], many Catholic priests are married, fruitful and multiplying — with the [url="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/r/roman_catholic_church/index.html?inline=nyt-org"][color="#004276"]Vatican[/color][/url]’s blessing.[/b]



[b] Multimedia[/b]



[url="http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/03/23/world/europe/20100323UKRAINE_index.html?ref=europe"][img]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/03/23/world/europe/20100323UKRAINE-B.JPG[/img] Slide Show [/url]
[b] [url="http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/03/23/world/europe/20100323UKRAINE_index.html?ref=europe"][color="#004276"]A Father's Flock, at Home[/color][/url][/b]




[color="#004276"][img]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/03/23/world/23ukraine_CA1/23ukraine_CA1-articleInline.jpg[/img][/color]
[b] The New York Times[/b]

In western Ukraine, many Catholic priests are married and multiplying. [url="http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/03/23/world/europe/20100323UKRAINE_index.html"][color="#004276"]More Photos »[/color][/url]


[url="javascript:pop_me_up2("][size="2"][color="#004276"]Enlarge This Image[/color][/size][/url][url="javascript:pop_me_up2("][size="2"][color="#004276"][img]http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2010/03/23/world/23ukraine_CA2/23ukraine_CA2-articleInline.jpg[/img][/color][/size] [/url]
[b] Joseph Sywenkyj for The New York Times[/b]

Father Volovetskiy gave communion to his daughter Pavlina, 21, at his parish, St. Volodymyr the Great, part of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church. [url="http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2010/03/23/world/europe/20100323UKRAINE_index.html"][color="#004276"]More Photos »[/color][/url]

The many feet scampering around the Volovetskiy home are testament to that.
The family’s six children range from Pavlina, 21, to Taras, 9. In the middle is Roman, 16, who wants to be a Catholic priest when he grows up. Just like his father.
Dad is the Rev. Yuriy Volovetskiy, who leads a small parish here and whose wife, Vera, teaches religious school. The Volovetskiys serve in the [url="http://www.ugcc.org.ua/index.php?L=2"][color="#004276"]Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church[/color][/url], which believes that celibate priests are not necessarily better priests.
Ukrainian Greek Catholics represent a branch of Catholicism that is distinct from the far more prevalent Roman Catholic one. The Ukrainian church is loyal to the pope in Rome, and its leader is a cardinal and major archbishop.
But it conducts services that resemble those in Eastern Orthodox Christianity. In religious terms, it follows the Eastern Rite, not the Latin one that is customary in Roman Catholicism.
Historically, the Vatican appears to have tolerated the traditions and attitude toward celibacy of the so-called Eastern Rite Catholics in order to retain a foothold in regions where Orthodox Christianity has dominated. But this exception suggests that the Vatican view on celibacy is not as rigid or monolithic as it might otherwise appear.
And so home life with the Volovetskiys offers this portrait: a father who is a Father, wearing a Catholic clerical collar, doting on his children like any other parent, even organizing an impromptu family musical recital. (“I will sing for you!” said Irena, 13, while she plucked the strings of the [url="http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/763044/bandura"][color="#004276"]bandura[/color][/url], the Ukrainian national instrument.)
Ukrainian priests, while reluctant to criticize [url="http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/benedict_xvi/index.html?inline=nyt-per"][color="#004276"]Pope Benedict XVI[/color][/url] over his unyielding stance on the celibacy requirement, said permitting them to raise families enriched their ability to tend to parishioners’ needs.
“It is important when a priest has an understanding of not only himself,” said Father Volovetskiy, 45, who entered a seminary when he was in his 20s. “Having a family gives a priest a deeper understanding of how to relate to other people and help other people. It is more natural, it makes more sense, for a priest to have a wife and children.”
The Rev. Roman Kravchyk, 50, a senior Ukrainian Greek Catholic official, said he was often asked by seminary students whether they should try to have a family or remain celibate (sexual relations outside marriage are not an option). He said he did not strongly encourage either, though he pointed out the advantages of marriage.
“It seems to me that when a priest is not married, it is difficult for him to explain things to parishioners,” Father Kravchyk said. “Because he has not lived through them.”
He added that celibacy would seem to go against human nature.
“Having a sexual life, no one can escape that,” he said. “We are all living people. We are not stones. Though there have to be limits.”
Father Kravchyk and Father Volovetskiy, who were interviewed here in western Ukraine before the scandal broke out in Germany this month, declined to address the issue of whether sexual abuse by priests was connected to celibacy.
The Vatican has rejected such a link. Senior church officials have said that if celibacy was the cause of these scandals, then there would not be problems of child sex abuse outside the priesthood. Still, whether or not a link exists, publicity about the German cases has touched off a renewed debate over the issue.
The Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, which has roughly five million adherents in Ukraine, is one of a small number of Eastern Rite Catholic churches. Others also recognize the pope’s leadership and permit married priests. These churches account for only about 1 or 2 percent of all Catholics.
The Ukrainian Greek Catholic leader, Cardinal Lubomyr Husar, is celibate, as is typical among the leadership of Eastern Rite Catholic churches. The cardinal has not spoken out in recent days on the issue of celibacy, though he has said that he does not think that ending the requirement would help the Vatican confront the declining number of men who want to become priests.
But Cardinal Christoph Schönborn, the Roman Catholic Archbishop of Vienna, suggested this month that in response to the German abuse scandal, the Vatican should question its policies, including celibacy. His spokesman later clarified that Cardinal Schönborn was not calling for abolishing the requirement.
Here in Rudno, a suburb of Lviv, the largest city in western Ukraine, Father Volovetskiy has a small church, St. Volodymyr the Great, that hints at a melding of Eastern Orthodoxy and Roman Catholicism. Inside, there are depictions of Jesus Christ similar to those seen on Russian icons, as well as photos of [url="http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/reference/timestopics/people/j/_john_paul_ii/index.html?inline=nyt-per"][color="#004276"]Pope John Paul II[/color][/url].
At his home the other day, it was clear how Father Volovetskiy’s life diverged from that of a Roman Catholic priest. Mrs. Volovetskiy, 44, was teaching religious school on the first floor to 20 or so young children, including their youngest, Taras.
Upstairs, Pavlina, their eldest, who is studying to be an archivist and a religious school teacher, was making lunch. The others, including Yuriy, 18, and Khrystyna, 10, showed off the house. On one wall was an old wedding photo — Father Volovetskiy carrying his bride, Mrs. Volovetskiy.
The children said they were proud that their father was a priest, though they acknowledged that it was a challenge always having to set an example.
“People may not know you well, but they know who your father is, and they are watching you in the street and in the school,” said Roman, the 16-year-old. “It’s a little like being a target.”
Father Volovetskiy said having children changed how he approached his calling.
“It helps me to view the world through the eyes of others,” he said. “And it helps people trust me more. They see that there is a priest who has a family, and they see how we live. We are part of society.”

[Winchester]

[quote name='GeorgiiMichael' timestamp='1321137864' post='2335527']
My comments in red.

I'm praying for you, SC Guy.

You're argument is inherently flawed because it is [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invincible_ignorance_fallacy"]fallacious[/url]. I vote we close this thread and move on with our lives.
[/quote]
All that effort, only to say "You are argument is flawed..."

Really?

[Aloysius]

All your argument are belong to us!

[4588686]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1320813207' post='2333575']

I think that for the sake of the young boys in the Catholic church -- as well as the reputation and success of the Catholic church -- no homosexuals should be admitted to the priesthood. No matter what their intentions are. We can feel sympathetic for them, but I think that the costs outweigh the benefits.
[/quote]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1320813207' post='2333575']

I think that for the sake of the young boys in the Catholic church -- as well as the reputation and success of the Catholic church -- no homosexuals should be admitted to the priesthood. No matter what their intentions are. We can feel sympathetic for them, but I think that the costs outweigh the benefits.
[/quote]

[url="http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html"]http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html[/url]

[4588686]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1321134821' post='2335503']

The abusers in the Catholic church are homosexuals. If the Catholic church was somehow able to get rid of all of the homosexual Priests then the sodomy would be eliminated.[/QUOTE]

1-There isn't an inherent link towards homosexuality and child molestation.
2-Not all molestation is sodomy
3-hey hey hey!

[QUOTE]But getting rid of all of the homosexuals would be close to impossible because[u][i][b] a "homosexual" doesn't have a certain look[/b][/i][/u]. Perhaps they seek out the Catholic priesthood to hide their homosexuality? Then people don't notice that they're not married or in any relationships with women?[/QUOTE]

Obviously you have shiitake mushroom gaydar. Somehow I can't help but suspect that your poor gay-dar, a few beers too many, a new 'friend' you met at the bar and went to go hang out with, and a night of miscommunication, surprise, and then shame led to your weird fixation/paranoia about homosexuals that you display here and at subtuum.

[QUOTE]I think that the only way to get rid of the Priests who sodomize boys is to allow Priests to marry. Then the homosexuals couldn't hide in the Catholic priesthood any easier than any other part of society. Of course not all single men are homosexuals -- [/QUOTE]

Right, because...

1-Gay men never marry women to pass
2-It's 1960 and there are still no places for gay men to go aside from the Priesthood.

[QUOTE]but you know what I'm saying.[/QUOTE]

Not fully. Although the parts that I do I kind o wish I didn't.

[QUOTE]And the taboo question is whether some people are truly born homosexual or if their environment shapes them? Men who have been molested are much more likely to become homosexuals as adults. And if people aren't born that way and acquire this perversion -- then what sort of factors can lead to the development of it? I suggested that celibacy in men -- or an attempt to live their entire life celibately -- could be a factor in some men. And if this is indeed the case then the Catholic church is making a big mistake by not allowing the Priests the option of marriage.
[/quote]

Right. So seeing as you're a virgin I guess I can expect to be reading a post about your new 'roommate' Todd any day now.