Does Celibacy Lead To Homosexual And Pedophile Behavior By Priests?

[southern california guy]

[quote name='musturde' timestamp='1320513675' post='2331923']

Like I noted in my previous post, I don't think the person neccesarily has to be a gay priest to abuse a boy. If you look at ancient writings, you'll find this was very common among heterosexuals as well. If i'm not mistaken, even Socrates had a thing for little boys. I believe a lot of the priesthood may be gay but not because they suddenly turn that way after joining the priesthood.
[/quote]

Is this the old stupid "born that way" argument?? Men who have sex with boys or other men are called "homosexuals". Sure I've heard of it being a power trip -- like in prison. But the point still remains the "sexual abuse" in the Catholic church is [b]SODOMY[/b]! Almost nothing but sodomy! Why?

Is the Catholic priesthood really that attractive to the special group comprised of "homosexual pedophiles"? I like the humanists argument better -- even if I'm not a total fan of "Humanist" psychology.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='she_who_is_not' timestamp='1320516240' post='2331939']
I think the issue is that people who have a pedeophiliac tendencies seek positions where they have access to and authority over children. There is just as much child sexual abuse perpetrated by Protestant clergy as Catholic clergy. It is just not covered by the media in the same way. I've also read some analyses that predict that abuse in Protestant communities is reported less often than in the Catholic church because of the networks that have been founded to uncover abuse and support victims within the Catholic community. Abuse is often perpetrated by teachers, principals, scout leaders etc. These people are generally not celibate. Some are married. Maybe they are latent homosexuals, I don't know.

The common thread among child abusers is that they seek out children. They may not choose their profession in a conscious attempt to prey upon kids, they like kids and want to be around them and then the craving takes over. As a society, we need to do a better job at keeping these people away from kids. It is convenient to say that celibacy contributes to pedophilia. However, convenient solutions don't work. The inconvenient solutions wouldn't neccesarily work, either. However, if we limit the dialoge to ridciulous to superficial discussion of what causes pedophiliac tendencies rather than a deep and meaningful conversation on legitmate means of protecting children and rehabilitating those who prey upon them, nothing will ever be accomplished.
[/quote]

I don't believe that there is as much [b]sodomy[/b] perpetrated against young boys by the protestant clergy as there is by the Catholic. I suspect that most of the "sexual abuse" is by protestant clergy having sex with young women in the congregation. I think that the "sexual abuse" is much more heterosexual in nature. And if I'm right the Catholics are unique.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='she_who_is_not' timestamp='1320507347' post='2331865']
Short answer: No.

Why did you get a get a short answer: Because tiny purple type is the devil.
[/quote]

Isn't purple a "gay" color?

[rachael]

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v103/rac13sd/parks2.gif[/IMG]

[Norseman82]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1320512355' post='2331910']

By the way, quite a few of your topics seem to be about sex or relationships. Perhaps the issue lies not with Church teaching, but with yourself and your own fixation on this particular aspect of it?
[/quote]

Kind of a cheap shot, if you ask me.....

[Norseman82]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1320517522' post='2331948']

I don't believe that there is as much [b]sodomy[/b] perpetrated against young boys by the protestant clergy as there is by the Catholic. I suspect that most of the "sexual abuse" is by protestant clergy having sex with young women in the congregation. I think that the "sexual abuse" is much more heterosexual in nature. And if I'm right the Catholics are unique.
[/quote]

Well, the Catholic Church IS the big kid on the block, so it stands that pedophile cases in the Church may make news. But rest assured, there are cases of same-sex pedophilia among other denominations, even among non-religious people (what about sexual abuse with families or by boyfriends of single mother?) However, it's more fun to go after the Catholic Church because it takes a stand against the immorality of the day - strike the shepherd so that the sheep may scatter, so to speak.

Edited November 5, 2011 by Norseman82

[southern california guy]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1320518418' post='2331954']

Well, the Catholic Church IS the big kid on the block, so it stands that pedophile cases in the Church may make news. But rest assured, there are cases of same-sex pedophilia among other denominations, even among non-religious people (what about sexual abuse with families or by boyfriends of single mother?) However, it's more fun to go after the Catholic Church because it takes a stand against the immorality of the day - strike the shepherd so that the sheep may scatter, so to speak.
[/quote]

I know that there are cases of same-sex pedophilia among other denominations but I think that it's worse among the Catholics. When I was still in my teens I started going to protestant churches and hanging out with protestant University Christian groups. And I attended protestant services for over twenty years. The sexual abuses that I heard about were always cases where an older guy in the church was caught fooling around with an underage girl.

It would be interesting to see what percent of our society are same-sex pedophiles, what percent of the protestant churches are same-sex pedophiles, versus the percentage of the Catholic clergy who are same sex pedophiles.

I think you're right though. I think that some people see my sort of criticism as an attack on the Catholic church which could result in the collapse of the Catholic church -- and consequently cause many people to lose their faith and their way in the world. But that's not really my intent. If there is a connection then this "problem" will continue. Should the Catholic church consider married "priests"??? Married nuns??? Is this total heresy? What is the solution?

[sixpence]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1320510884' post='2331892']

Taking a vow of celibacy for the [b]entire rest of your life[/b] is very different from remaining celibate before marriage. A celibate person looking to marry does not necessarily repress their sexual feelings or thoughts. They're not repressing their feelings and desire for women.
[/quote]

how does this make ANY sense?

[MIKolbe]

it doesn't... it's part of his charm.

[MarysLittleFlower]

I don't believe that celibacy can lead to homosexual or pedophile behaviour. It doesn't change your orientation or make you have disordered desires. I think this view is the result of our society not being able to understand celibacy.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Celibacy in a religious vocation is not "repressing" sexuality.. the priesthood is lived in a supernatural, not a natural way, God helps the person with His grace. This is why prayer is so important for the religious.

[Norseman82]

[quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1320526379' post='2331988']

how does this make ANY sense?
[/quote]

As part of SCG's age and marital status demographic, I may be able to explain what he is trying to get at (without taking a cheap shot, which it appears that even the regulator class is starting to join in on).

When you are celibate but still seeking to marry, you still have the hope of marrying and having sex legally (I have read somewhere that the hope of being married - the proverbial "being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel" - can help one hold on to abstinence until that day comes). However, when one takes a vow of permanent celibacy, one permanently forgoes any hope of future marriage, so the only "light at the end of the tunnel" is death itself. That is why the celibate vocations are considered the "higher calling" - since it is not the natural vocation (according to CCC 1603, marriage is the vocation written into our nature), it requires supernatural graces to carry out, which is what MarysLittleFlower was trying to get at (I think):

[quote name='MarysLittleFlower' timestamp='1320531850' post='2332017']
Celibacy in a religious vocation is not "repressing" sexuality.. the priesthood is lived in a supernatural, not a natural way, God helps the person with His grace. This is why prayer is so important for the religious.
[/quote]

Edited November 5, 2011 by Norseman82

[musturde]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1320517221' post='2331944']
Is this the old stupid "born that way" argument?? Men who have sex with boys or other men are called "homosexuals". Sure I've heard of it being a power trip -- like in prison. But the point still remains the "sexual abuse" in the Catholic church is [b]SODOMY[/b]! Almost nothing but sodomy! Why? [/quote]
No, that's not always true. There are straight people who molest little boys as well, this doesn't necessarily make them gay. Please respond to my first post, you'll understand what I'm talking about.

[quote]
Is the Catholic priesthood really that attractive to the special group comprised of "homosexual pedophiles"? I like the humanists argument better -- even if I'm not a total fan of "Humanist" psychology.
[/quote]
Like I said, respond to my first post before responding to this one.

[musturde]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1320516436' post='2331940']
you might want to clarify which Socrates you mean :/
[/quote]
lolol, the ancient Greek philosopher... not the Phatmass poster.

[southern california guy]

[quote name='Norseman82' timestamp='1320535092' post='2332027']

As part of SCG's age and marital status demographic, I may be able to explain what he is trying to get at (without taking a cheap shot, which it appears that even the regulator class is starting to join in on).

When you are celibate but still seeking to marry, you still have the hope of marrying and having sex legally (I have read somewhere that the hope of being married - the proverbial "being able to see the light at the end of the tunnel" - can help one hold on to abstinence until that day comes). However, when one takes a vow of permanent celibacy, one permanently forgoes any hope of future marriage, so the only "light at the end of the tunnel" is death itself. That is why the celibate vocations are considered the "higher calling" - since it is not the natural vocation (according to CCC 1603, marriage is the vocation written into our nature), it requires supernatural graces to carry out, which is what MarysLittleFlower was trying to get at (I think):
[/quote]

Thank you, yes that is exactly what I was trying to say.