Does Celibacy Lead To Homosexual And Pedophile Behavior By Priests?

[Winchester]

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/116276-paul-krugman-thread/

[southern california guy]

[quote name='she_who_is_not' timestamp='1320507347' post='2331865']
Short answer: No.

Why did you get a get a short answer: Because tiny purple type is the devil.
[/quote]

It wasn't that tiny when I posted it. Somebody made some changes to my post.

[MIKolbe]

lol

[southern california guy]

[color=#000000][center] [/color][/center][color=#000000][center] [/color][/center][color=#000000][center]Since the size of the font in the original message mysteriously became very small I'm reposting the original article.[/color][/center][color=#000000][center] [/color][/center][color=#000000][center][b]Clerical Celibacy and Pedophilic Priests[/b][/color][/center][color=#000000]
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Reports of priests sexually molesting children have come to light in virtually every major U.S. city. The Catholic Church has paid over $2 billion in damages to victims, who are often emotionally scarred for decades.[/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]The Church has acknowledged, moreover, that 13,000 credible accusations of sexual abuse have been made against Catholic clerics since 1950.[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]There is strong evidence that this widespread problem is caused, at least in part, by the Catholic Church's clerical celibacy requirement and its other sexually repressive doctrines. Persons concerned about the problem should therefore urge Catholic leaders to reexamine and modify their teachings about sex. [/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Desmond Morris's classic book on human behavior, [i]The Naked Ape[/i], reports that homosexual behavior is often "seen in situations where the ideal sexual object (a member of the opposite sex) is unavailable. This applies in many groups of animals."[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Morris goes on: "Similar situations occur with high frequency in our own species and the response is much the same. [i]If either males or females cannot for some reason obtain sexual access to their opposite members, they will find sexual outlets in other ways[/i]." (Emphasis added.)[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Psychiatrist and ex-priest A. W. Richard Sipe likewise relates: "Doctor Lewis Hill, former medical director of Sheppard and Enoch Pratt Hospital in Towson, Maryland, used to tell his resident psychiatrists, 'Man is a loving animal, and he is going to love whatever he is near.' The sexual histories of farm boys frequently recorded passing involvements with animals."[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]These facts about human sexuality indicate that Catholic priests, who are required by their Church to remain celibate and taught to abhor sexual relationships with women, might in some cases seek outlets for their sexuality in other ways. The behavior could include homosexuality or pedophilia.[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]In fact, statements by Dr. Jay Feierman support a link between sexual repression and pedophilia. As a psychiatrist who has met with hundreds of pedophilic priests at a Catholic treatment center in New Mexico, Feierman is in a position to recognize the connection.[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Feierman says celibacy is not "a natural state for humans to be in." Pointing to the celibacy requirement as a cause of clergy abuse of children, he explains: "If you tell a man that he's not allowed to have particular friends, he's not allowed to be affectionate, he's not allowed to be in love, he's not allowed to be a sexual being, you shouldn't be surprised at anything that happens."[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Research by the University of New Hampshire's David Finkelhor, Ph.D., supports the same position. Finkelhor, a recognized expert on the study of sexual abuse of children, has shown that repressive sexual attitudes linked to many religions may predispose some persons toward sexual activities with children.[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Further support for that causal connection is provided by Dr. John Money, a leading expert on sexual violence. Money has pioneered treatments for deviate sexuality at Johns Hopkins Medical School. He says people raised in conditions where sex is viewed as evil, and where sexual curiosity is a punishable offense, are likely to end up with warped sexual identities. Those surroundings are often produced by conservative religions.[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Money describes the harmful effects of such environments: "In girls, often you extinguish the lust completely, so that they can never have an orgasm, and marriage becomes a dreary business where you put up with sex to serve the maternal instinct.[i]In boys, sex gets redirected into abnormal channels[/i]." (Emphasis added.)[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Money's observations as to the different effects of repressive sexual environments on males and females may explain why pedophilia is a much greater problem among priests than among nuns, who also must take a celibacy vow.[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Concerning males who are isolated for long periods, with restricted social outlets and limited positive sexual development, Sipe adds that "Kinsey and colleagues noted the frequency of homosexual contact 'among ranchmen, cattlemen, prospectors, lumbermen and farming groups in general.'" Many have found similar phenomena in prisons.[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]And specifically in regard to such "situational homosexuality" among Catholic priests, Sipe notes: "At times the situation rather than the core sexual orientation of the priest dictates his sexual choice. Many reports in this category are similar. A long-time friendship and isolation in a learning or living circumstance lead to a sexual exchange between friends. Subsequent history and development can reveal an essentially heterosexual orientation and choice." [/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]In view of the above evidence, it is logical to conclude that if priests were permitted a normal outlet for their "essentially heterosexual orientation and choice," they would be less likely to seek an outlet through another means, such as pedophilia. This conclusion is consistent with the fact that, in the treatment of pedophiles who are not priests, mental health professionals encourage the patients to develop healthy sexual relationships with adults. [/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Contrary to claims being made by some, the problem of sexual abuse by priests is not unique to modern society but has existed for centuries. In his book [i]Divinity of Doubt[/i], Vincent Bugliosi says "a 375-page 2004 report, based on the Roman Catholic Church's own documents and written by a Catholic priest and two former monks, 'Canonical History of Clerical Sexual Abuse,' reveals that the sexual abuse of children by priests goes back at least seventeen hundred years, and the church, fully aware of it, has never taken adequate steps to end it."[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Bugliosi continues: "The report also says that for centuries many priests have actually solicited sex in the confessional. . . . The church's Council of Treves in 1227 found the problem sufficiently common to decree that confessional solicitation of sex should result in excommunication from the church."[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]In the sixteenth century, the founder of the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther, opposed the Catholic Church's clerical celibacy requirement because of the harms he believed it caused.[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Luther wrote of the Catholic Church's leaders: "They were completely unjustified in forbidding marriage and in burdening the priesthood with the demand of continual celibacy. In doing so they have acted like . . . tyrannical, unholy scoundrels, occasioning all sorts of terrible, ghastly, countless sins against chastity, in which they are caught to this day."[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]In 1966, psychiatrists Franz Alexander and Sheldon Selesnick described similar problems involving monasteries: "Centuries of imposed celibacy had not inhibited the erotic drives of monks or nuns, and underground passageways were known to connect some monasteries and nunneries. Townspeople often had to send prostitutes to the monasteries in order to protect the maidens of the village." [/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Incidentally, the same type of problem occurred in society at large. For instance, in 1254 Louis IX banned prostitution in France and prescribed harsh penalties for it. But he soon was impelled to lift the ban, after receiving reports of increasing numbers of "lecherous attacks" on wives and daughters. So he went from banning prostitution to regulating it.[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Although Catholic priests are still caught committing sexual offenses, which are publicized more than ever, most Church leaders disregard possible causes of the problem and continue promoting extremely repressive and unhealthy attitudes toward sex.[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Unless the Church stops ignoring the overwhelming evidence of the evils produced by its teachings on sexuality - and modifies those teachings to be consistent with modern scientific knowledge - there will be many more victims severely damaged by sexual abuse committed by Catholic clergy.[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]Henry David Thoreau said, "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." Advocates for victims of sexual assault can strike at the root of this problem by speaking out against the Catholic Church's clerical celibacy requirement and its other harmful sexual doctrines.[/font][/size][/color]
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[size=4][font="Arial"]The root has been fully exposed. As sex therapist Joan A. Nelson states in her 2006 book [i]Sex Education Beyond the Fig Leaves[/i]: "Since the tragic priestly sex scandals, we can no longer pretend we don't know about the long-lasting trauma and betrayals of trust that can happen when repressed, or overly disciplined sexuality breaks forth."[/font][/size][/color]

[musturde]

Actually, this reminds me of a chat I had with a very popular priest at my parish. He told me that there were so many gay people in the seminary that heterosexuals were treated like meat. The seminarians would play pranks on him for not being gay (I'm not kidding about this). I've known some gay Catholics and it seems like a very sad situation for them. I think the reason why people think celibacy turns priests gay is because they don't realize that the celibate lifestyle is the only choice for gay devout Catholics. It makes sense that homosexuals who feel like they aren't called to marriage will feel that they are called to the priesthood. This DOES NOT MEAN that the high number of homosexuals in the priesthood (if this is true, at least) is the cause for child abuse. Homosexuality does not cause child abuse. I believe a straight male is just as likely to abuse a child.

Edited November 5, 2011 by musturde

[MIKolbe]

so mysterious!!! lol

[beatitude]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1320510884' post='2331892']

Taking a vow of celibacy for the [b]entire rest of your life[/b] is very different from remaining celibate before marriage. A celibate person looking to marry does not necessarily repress their sexual feelings or thoughts. They're not repressing their feelings and desire for women.
[/quote]

Neither do people who have taken vows. Not having sex does not equal repression. Any nun or priest worth their salt could tell you that. They have desires. They accept them. They just don't act on them in a sexual way, but they find other ways to express that longing and creative capability - through music, through artwork, through work in the garden, through writing, through heartfelt prayer, through simply allowing themselves to feel their humanity (and in this case, that also means acknowledging some level of grief). Not everybody can do this, only those who are called to it. To those who are called, the grace is given, and it isn't an ordeal or a chore to live this way. Living out our vocation in life is what makes us fully human, so for people who are called to be priests or sisters, celibacy enhances rather than detracts from their humanity.

I have a guy friend who is a lot of fun to talk to and who is very attractive. I have romantic/sexual feelings for him. I accept this. I'm not hiding from them. They're as normal to me as the weather. They're just part of being human. But there is something that celibacy affords me that I want far more than a relationship with him: emotional, spiritual, and intellectual intimacy with a wide variety of people, of all ages and genders. I have the confidence of eight-year-olds and eighty-seven-year-olds alike, and this is important for the kind of ministry I'm in. This level of availability is only made possible by the fact that I don't have a family, and it's necessary for the life of the Church to have people in this position. I find it very fulfilling. Equally, married couples might sometimes feel dissatisfied with their family life and long for the kind of solitude I have, but they wouldn't want to swap with me, not really. Sometimes we all have yearnings for things we can't have. Absence and longing are characteristics of life this side of Heaven, and they don't have to hurt us.

By the way, quite a few of your topics seem to be about sex or relationships. Perhaps the issue lies not with Church teaching, but with yourself and your own fixation on this particular aspect of it?

[southern california guy]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1320503582' post='2331816']
except that basically all the information and studies out there shows that there is not a higher rate of pedophiles among Catholic priests than among any other profession that comes in contact with children, ie Public School Teachers and Protestant (Married) Ministers.

what is the root cause of Public School Teacher sex abuse?
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Okay I'll explain myself more. The term [b]"SEXUAL ABUSE"[/b] is very broad -- it is very vague. Does it include underage heterosexual sex? You know like an 18 year old having sex with a sixteen year old? What makes the "sex abuse" in the Catholic church unique is that it is almost entirely [b]HOMOSEXUAL[/b] in nature. It is homosexual "sex" with underage boys. That is [b]ALL[/b] that it is!!!!

How many case have you ever heard of a young girl pressing charges against a Catholic priest??? I'm sure you've heard of a few but the cases of "sexual abuse" that make the news and fill the bulk of the statistics are [b]homosexual[/b].

[southern california guy]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1320512355' post='2331910']
By the way, quite a few of your topics seem to be about sex or relationships. Perhaps the issue lies not with Church teaching, but with yourself and your own fixation on this particular aspect of it?
[/quote]

Boy you're telling me! My interests are pretty much women, gardening, and sports. Pretty much in that order -- sometimes with sports and gardening changing position.

[musturde]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1320512918' post='2331915']

How many case have you ever heard of a young girl pressing charges against a Catholic priest??? I'm sure you've heard of a few but the cases of "sexual abuse" that make the news and fill the bulk of the statistics are [b]homosexual[/b].
[/quote]

Like I noted in my previous post, I don't think the person neccesarily has to be a gay priest to abuse a boy. If you look at ancient writings, you'll find this was very common among heterosexuals as well. If i'm not mistaken, even Socrates had a thing for little boys. I believe a lot of the priesthood may be gay but not because they suddenly turn that way after joining the priesthood.

Edited November 5, 2011 by musturde

[MissyP89]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1320510884' post='2331892']

Taking a vow of celibacy for the [b]entire rest of your life[/b] is very different from remaining celibate before marriage. A celibate person looking to marry does not necessarily repress their sexual feelings or thoughts. They're not repressing their feelings and desire for women.
[/quote]

Anyone who is "repressing" their sexuality [i]is [/i]going to fall, and fall hard.

Too, saying that people called to marriage "aren't repressing their feelings ... for women" is a load of mushy mud pie. First, again, repression is not the aim of this game, and I think the majority of mature people here know that. Secondly, if we're not married, then yes, we ARE called to avoid lust and temptation. I'm in a committed relationship, yet I don't think I have ever been more careful with what I say and do. Just because this may lead to marriage (and therefore sex) doesn't mean we're going to talk about it every day.

Instead -- and this is the goal of chastity for BOTH celibate people under vows and unmarried singles -- the goal is to foster deep, lasting and emotional relationships. To uphold the other person's dignity and honor over your own desires. It's not repression of desire, but the [i]redirection [/i]of the focus.

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1320512355' post='2331910']
By the way, quite a few of your topics seem to be about sex or relationships. Perhaps the issue lies not with Church teaching, but with yourself and your own fixation on this particular aspect of it?
[/quote]

[img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-8yEdwcoXhik/Tg-Wp_ZL37I/AAAAAAAAA2s/6so14ef8JoY/s1600/Oh+no+she+didn%27t.jpg[/img]

[Lil Red]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1320511009' post='2331894']

It wasn't that tiny when I posted it. Somebody made some changes to my post.[/quote]
lol wut?

[she_who_is_not]

I think the issue is that people who have a pedeophiliac tendencies seek positions where they have access to and authority over children. There is just as much child sexual abuse perpetrated by Protestant clergy as Catholic clergy. It is just not covered by the media in the same way. I've also read some analyses that predict that abuse in Protestant communities is reported less often than in the Catholic church because of the networks that have been founded to uncover abuse and support victims within the Catholic community. Abuse is often perpetrated by teachers, principals, scout leaders etc. These people are generally not celibate. Some are married. Maybe they are latent homosexuals, I don't know.

The common thread among child abusers is that they seek out children. They may not choose their profession in a conscious attempt to prey upon kids, they like kids and want to be around them and then the craving takes over. As a society we need to do a better job at keeping these people away from kids. It is convenient to say that celibacy contributes to pedophilia. However, convenient solutions don't work. The inconvenient solutions wouldn't neccesarily work, either. However, if we limit the dialoge to a ridiculous and superficial discussion of what causes pedophiliac tendencies rather than a deep and meaningful conversation on legitmate means of protecting children and rehabilitating those who prey upon them, nothing will ever be accomplished.

Edited November 5, 2011 by she_who_is_not

[Lil Red]

[quote name='musturde' timestamp='1320513675' post='2331923']

Like I noted in my previous post, I don't think the person neccesarily has to be a gay priest to abuse a boy. If you look at ancient writings, you'll find this was very common among heterosexuals as well. If i'm not mistaken, even Socrates had a thing for little boys. I believe a lot of the priesthood may be gay but not because they suddenly turn that way after joining the priesthood.[/quote]
you might want to clarify which Socrates you mean :/

[BG45]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1320516069' post='2331938']
lol wut?
[/quote]

Actually, if he copied and pasted it from elsewhere, it may have gone tiny. I've noticed that if I'm lifting a quote from somewhere, that the board will sometimes automatically resize it to a tiny size for some reason. I don't think anyone edited it to make it smaller, just that the board did it on its own, like it sometimes does to copy/paste jobs.

(Today I learned that Firefox built in spellcheck says "resizing" is a word but "resize" is not.)