Does Celibacy Lead To Homosexual And Pedophile Behavior By Priests?

[southern california guy]

I'm sure that we've all pondered this question, at least privately. I've discussed with some non-religious friends and the question makes them angry. They've got their own sort of "religious" (emotional) beliefs -- or positions.. And their position is one of support towards homosexuals, so they argue that people are "[b]..JUST BORN THAT WAY![/b]" -- [i]so the homosexuals can teach about homosexuality to the grade schoolers without any risk of recruiting young kids![/i]

However I don't buy that. And I also don't buy the argument that the reason that their are more homosexuals and pedophiles in the celibate vocations of the Catholic church is "..because homosexuals and pedophiles are more likely to go for the Priesthood." I also don't buy the argument that their are no more homosexuals and pedophiles in the Catholic church than in society as a whole..

Here's an argument that I basically agree with ( [url="http://www.humanismbyjoe.com/clerical_celibacy_and_pedophilic.htm"]Clerical Celibacy and Pedophile Priests[/url] ) :

[color=#000000][center][color=#800080][font="Arial"][b]Clerical Celibacy and Pedophilic Priests[/b][/font][/color][/color][/center][color=#000000]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Reports of priests sexually molesting children have come to light in virtually every major U.S. city. The Catholic Church has paid over $2 billion in damages to victims, who are often emotionally scarred for decades.[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]The Church has acknowledged, moreover, that 13,000 credible accusations of sexual abuse have been made against Catholic clerics since 1950.[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]There is strong evidence that this widespread problem is caused, at least in part, by the Catholic Church's clerical celibacy requirement and its other sexually repressive doctrines. Persons concerned about the problem should therefore urge Catholic leaders to reexamine and modify their teachings about sex. [/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Desmond Morris's classic book on human behavior, [i]The Naked Ape[/i], reports that homosexual behavior is often "seen in situations where the ideal sexual object (a member of the opposite sex) is unavailable. This applies in many groups of animals." [/size][/font]Morris goes on: "Similar situations occur with high frequency in our own species and the response is much the same. [i]If either males or females cannot for some reason obtain sexual access to their opposite members, they will find sexual outlets in other ways[/i]." (Emphasis added.)[/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Psychiatrist and ex-priest A. W. Richard Sipe likewise relates: "Doctor Lewis Hill, former medical director of Sheppard and Enoch Pratt Hospital in Towson, Maryland, used to tell his resident psychiatrists, 'Man is a loving animal, and he is going to love whatever he is near.' The sexual histories of farm boys frequently recorded passing involvements with animals."[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]These facts about human sexuality indicate that Catholic priests, who are required by their Church to remain celibate and taught to abhor sexual relationships with women, might in some cases seek outlets for their sexuality in other ways. The behavior could include homosexuality or pedophilia.[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]In fact, statements by Dr. Jay Feierman support a link between sexual repression and pedophilia. As a psychiatrist who has met with hundreds of pedophilic priests at a Catholic treatment center in New Mexico, Feierman is in a position to recognize the connection.[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Feierman says celibacy is not "a natural state for humans to be in." Pointing to the celibacy requirement as a cause of clergy abuse of children, he explains: "If you tell a man that he's not allowed to have particular friends, he's not allowed to be affectionate, he's not allowed to be in love, he's not allowed to be a sexual being, you shouldn't be surprised at anything that happens."[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Research by the University of New Hampshire's David Finkelhor, Ph.D., supports the same position. Finkelhor, a recognized expert on the study of sexual abuse of children, has shown that repressive sexual attitudes linked to many religions may predispose some persons toward sexual activities with children.[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Further support for that causal connection is provided by Dr. John Money, a leading expert on sexual violence. Money has pioneered treatments for deviate sexuality at Johns Hopkins Medical School. He says people raised in conditions where sex is viewed as evil, and where sexual curiosity is a punishable offense, are likely to end up with warped sexual identities. Those surroundings are often produced by conservative religions.[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Money describes the harmful effects of such environments: "In girls, often you extinguish the lust completely, so that they can never have an orgasm, and marriage becomes a dreary business where you put up with sex to serve the maternal instinct.[i]In boys, sex gets redirected into abnormal channels[/i]." (Emphasis added.)[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Money's observations as to the different effects of repressive sexual environments on males and females may explain why pedophilia is a much greater problem among priests than among nuns, who also must take a celibacy vow.[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Concerning males who are isolated for long periods, with restricted social outlets and limited positive sexual development, Sipe adds that "Kinsey and colleagues noted the frequency of homosexual contact 'among ranchmen, cattlemen, prospectors, lumbermen and farming groups in general.'" Many have found similar phenomena in prisons.[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]And specifically in regard to such "situational homosexuality" among Catholic priests, Sipe notes: "At times the situation rather than the core sexual orientation of the priest dictates his sexual choice. Many reports in this category are similar. A long-time friendship and isolation in a learning or living circumstance lead to a sexual exchange between friends. Subsequent history and development can reveal an essentially heterosexual orientation and choice." [/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]In view of the above evidence, it is logical to conclude that if priests were permitted a normal outlet for their "essentially heterosexual orientation and choice," they would be less likely to seek an outlet through another means, such as pedophilia. This conclusion is consistent with the fact that, in the treatment of pedophiles who are not priests, mental health professionals encourage the patients to develop healthy sexual relationships with adults. [/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Contrary to claims being made by some, the problem of sexual abuse by priests is not unique to modern society but has existed for centuries. In his book [i]Divinity of Doubt[/i], Vincent Bugliosi says "a 375-page 2004 report, based on the Roman Catholic Church's own documents and written by a Catholic priest and two former monks, 'Canonical History of Clerical Sexual Abuse,' reveals that the sexual abuse of children by priests goes back at least seventeen hundred years, and the church, fully aware of it, has never taken adequate steps to end it."[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Bugliosi continues: "The report also says that for centuries many priests have actually solicited sex in the confessional. . . . The church's Council of Treves in 1227 found the problem sufficiently common to decree that confessional solicitation of sex should result in excommunication from the church."[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]In the sixteenth century, the founder of the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther, opposed the Catholic Church's clerical celibacy requirement because of the harms he believed it caused.[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Luther wrote of the Catholic Church's leaders: "They were completely unjustified in forbidding marriage and in burdening the priesthood with the demand of continual celibacy. In doing so they have acted like . . . tyrannical, unholy scoundrels, occasioning all sorts of terrible, ghastly, countless sins against chastity, in which they are caught to this day."[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]In 1966, psychiatrists Franz Alexander and Sheldon Selesnick described similar problems involving monasteries: "Centuries of imposed celibacy had not inhibited the erotic drives of monks or nuns, and underground passageways were known to connect some monasteries and nunneries. Townspeople often had to send prostitutes to the monasteries in order to protect the maidens of the village." [/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Incidentally, the same type of problem occurred in society at large. For instance, in 1254 Louis IX banned prostitution in France and prescribed harsh penalties for it. But he soon was impelled to lift the ban, after receiving reports of increasing numbers of "lecherous attacks" on wives and daughters. So he went from banning prostitution to regulating it.[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Although Catholic priests are still caught committing sexual offenses, which are publicized more than ever, most Church leaders disregard possible causes of the problem and continue promoting extremely repressive and unhealthy attitudes toward sex.[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Unless the Church stops ignoring the overwhelming evidence of the evils produced by its teachings on sexuality - and modifies those teachings to be consistent with modern scientific knowledge - there will be many more victims severely damaged by sexual abuse committed by Catholic clergy.[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]Henry David Thoreau said, "There are a thousand hacking at the branches of evil to one who is striking at the root." Advocates for victims of sexual assault can strike at the root of this problem by speaking out against the Catholic Church's clerical celibacy requirement and its other harmful sexual doctrines.[/size][/font][/color][/color]
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[color=#800080][font="Arial"][size="2"]The root has been fully exposed. As sex therapist Joan A. Nelson states in her 2006 book [i]Sex Education Beyond the Fig Leaves[/i]: "Since the tragic priestly sex scandals, we can no longer pretend we don't know about the long-lasting trauma and betrayals of trust that can happen when repressed, or overly disciplined sexuality breaks forth."[/size][/font][/color][/color]

[Aloysius]

except that basically all the information and studies out there shows that there is not a higher rate of pedophiles among Catholic priests than among any other profession that comes in contact with children, ie Public School Teachers and Protestant (Married) Ministers.

what is the root cause of Public School Teacher sex abuse?

[Aloysius]

http://www.catholicleague.com/research/abuse_in_social_context.htm

these statistics are very important for understanding the Sexual Abuse problem in society at large.

[Basilisa Marie]

So...why don't you "buy" those other arguments? Because those arguments have actual statistical and scientific data to back them up. This argument reduces men to no better than the more hedonistic of animals, completely at the mercy of his urges, denying his very free will and rationality and is an attack on his human dignity.

The Church doesn't teach that sex is evil. The Church teaches that sex needs a proper context, a context that includes marriage.

But since I read your article, I hope you'd do me the favor of reading this opinion, from the (secular newspaper) Guardian: [url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2010/mar/11/catholic-abuse-priests"]http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2010/mar/11/catholic-abuse-priests[/url]

[quote]There seems to be no end to the scandals buffeting the Roman Catholic church about the abuse of children; [url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/09/pope-brother-violence-school"]most recently in Germany[/url], where the headmaster a school associated with a choir once run by the pope's elder brother Georg Ratzinger has been exposed as an abuser. And there is no doubt that a lot of children were damaged for life by priests, and that this was mostly covered up by the hierarchy until recently. But was the Catholic church unfairly singled out? Aren't all children vulnerable to exploitation, especially when they are poor and unwanted?[color=#333333][font=arial, sans-serif][left]These questions lead into a thicket of horror. The most detailed statistics on child abuse for the Catholic clergy that I can find come from [url="http://bit.ly/9IzjUp"]the John Jay Institute's report[/url] drawn up for the American Catholic bishops' conference. From this it emerges that the frequency of child abuse among Catholic priests is not remarkable but its pattern is. Although there are no figures for the number of abusers in the wider population, there are figure for the number of victims. These vary wildly: the most pessimistic survey finds that 27% of American women and 16% of men had "a history of childhood sexual abuse"; while the the most optimistic had 12.8% of women and 4.3% of men. Obviously a great deal depends here on the definition of abuse; also on the definition of "childhood". In some of these surveys it runs up to 18, which is a couple of years above the age of consent in Britain.[/left][/font][/color][/left][color=#333333][font=arial, sans-serif][left]The Catholic figures show that between about 4% of priests and deacons serving in the US between 1950 and 2002 had been accused of sexual abuse of someone under 18. In this country, the figure was a 10th of that: 0.4% But whereas the victims in the general population are overwhelmingly female, the pattern among American Catholic priests was quite different. Four out of five of their victims were male. Most were adolescents: two out of five were 14 or over; 15% were under 10.[/left][/font][/color][/left][color=#333333][font=arial, sans-serif][left]This is vile, but whether it is more vile than the record of any other profession is not obvious. The concentration on boys makes the Catholic pattern of abuse stand out; what makes it so shocking is that parents trusted their children with priests. They stood in for the parents. But this isn't all that different from the pattern in the wider world, either, where the vast majority of abuse comes from within families. The other point that makes the Catholic abuse is that it is nowadays very widely reported. It may be the best reported crime in the world: that, too tends to skew perceptions.[/left][/font][/color][/left][color=#333333][font=arial, sans-serif][left]There are, however, some fragments of figures from the outside world suggesting that not many professions do better. Last year, it was reported that half of the girls fostered in social democratic Sweden in the 50s and 60s had been abused; [url="http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2010/mar/09/broken-britain-toynbee-willetts-batmanghelidjh"]according to Camila Batmanghelidjh[/url]550,000 children are reported to the social services in this country every year.[/left][/font][/color][/left][color=#333333][font=arial, sans-serif][left]So why the concentration on Catholic priests and brothers? Perhaps I am unduly cynical, but I believe that all institutions attempt to cover up institutional wrongdoing although the Roman Catholic church has had a higher opinion of itself than most, and thus a greater tendency to lie about these things. Because it is an extremely authoritarian institution at least within the hierarchy, it is also one where there were few checks and balances on the misbehaviour of the powerful. The scandal has been loudest and most damaging in Ireland, because it came along just at the moment when the church was losing its power over society at large, and where it was no longer able to cover up what had happened, but still willing to try. Much the same is true in the diocese of Boston which was bankrupted by the scandal.[/left][/font][/color][/left][color=#333333][font=arial, sans-serif][left]It doesn't seem to be true, though, that this was a problem spread by Irish priests around the world, as some traditionalists have argued. Certainly, the geographical spread across the US was fairly even, and not concentrated in areas of high Irish settlement and tradition. But in Ireland the state was happy to hand over the problem of unwanted children to the church.[/left][/font][/color][/left]
Certainly the safeguards against paedophilia in the priesthood are now among the tightest in the world. That won't stop a steady trickle of scandals; but I think that objectively your child is less likely to be abused by a Catholic or Anglican priest in the west today than by the members of almost any other profession.[/quote]

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1320503582' post='2331816']
what is the root cause of Public School Teacher sex abuse?
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Teachers are all male, can't marry, and take a vow of celbacy!!!!

oh..wait...

[beatitude]

No. It doesn't.

If celibacy caused homosexuality or paedophilia, then every person who remains celibate until they get married would turn gay long before they reached the altar. And they would turn into paedophiles to boot. I'm twenty-four and unmarried, hoping to take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience (God willing), and I don't envisage myself suddenly morphing into either a lesbian or a child abuser.

Paedophilia is about power and control and abuse. There are many priests who are unfaithful to their promises by having a sexual relationship with grown adult women (or grown adult men), just as there are married people who are unfaithful to their spouses by doing exactly the same. But while a celibate person might be tempted to break their vows, it doesn't logically follow that they will do so by abusing children.

Aloysius is right about prevalence rates. Child sexual abuse is common, and a great deal of it is incestuous - something I know from working with very vulnerable teenagers and various child protection agencies. Fathers who abuse their own children aren't celibate.

[Aloysius]

Indeed. SCG's article takes for granted the premise that priests are more likely to be abusers, but that premise is demonstrably false, and because it is false, every point the article tries to make is also false. I'm sure you can find canonical cases dating back a long time (I'd be interesting in looking critically at that book's evidence ([color=#000000][color=#000000][color=#800080][font=Arial][size=2]Canonical History of Clerical Sexual Abuse[/size][/font][/color][/color][/color]) of it going back "seventeen hundred years" as we don't really have canonical records going back that far. heck, our episcopal lineages stop in the sixteenth century with Cardinal Rebiba, I'd be very suspicious of a claim that you could prove cases going back seventeen hundred years. but I'm sure there have been cases going back that far, because sexual abuse in society is nothing new. it wouldn't mean there was ever a high percentage of it, just that there have been cases, which is to be expected sadly enough with the fallen nature of man, you find it in every profession throughout society in every age.

[Era Might]

I actually agree with the basic premise of this article: that celibacy is unnatural for disordered flesh. Celibacy only makes sense as a radical and violent renunciation of this world. But I would say that marriage is also unnatural for disordered flesh. For a man to limit himself to the same woman for the rest of his life, through sickness, through weight gain, through old age. That is an act of repressing sexuality, restraining it, redirecting it, disciplining it. So yes, celibacy has always been at great risk of being tarnished, but so too has marriage: through adultery, through spousal abuse, and yes, through molestation in the family. Celibacy and marriage are decisions that have to be carried out every day...and if they aren't, then obviously it will lead to predictable problems.

[quote][color=#000000][color=#000000][color=#800080][font=Arial][size=2]Concerning males who are isolated for long periods, with restricted social outlets and limited positive sexual development, Sipe adds that "Kinsey and colleagues noted the frequency of homosexual contact 'among ranchmen, cattlemen, prospectors, lumbermen and farming groups in general.'" Many have found similar phenomena in prisons.[/size][/font][/color][/color][/color][/quote]
These are all cases of enforced celibacy. Being celibate is a major life decision that requires much discipline and commitment and perseverance...so obviously people who are unprepared for such a situation are going to run into problems. Priests are supposed to be spiritually mature, and when they are not it is a grievous fall.

[Era Might]

[quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1320501774' post='2331803'][color=#000000][color=#800080][font=Arial][size=2]Luther wrote of the Catholic Church's leaders: "They were completely unjustified in forbidding marriage and in burdening the priesthood with the demand of continual celibacy. In doing so they have acted like . . . tyrannical, unholy scoundrels, occasioning all sorts of terrible, ghastly, countless sins against chastity, in which they are caught to this day."[/size][/font][/color][/color][color=#000000][/quote][/color]
By the way, I happened to be reading Gandhi the other day and came across this, I thought I would share (it was part of a Q&A):

[quote]R. Mr. Andrews does not like your emphasis on celibacy.

Yes, I know that is the legacy of Protestantism. Protestantism did many good things, but one of its few evils was that it ridiculed celibacy.

R. That was because it had to fight the deep abuses in which the clergy of the age had sunk.

But all that was not due to any inherent evil of celibacy. It is celibacy that has kept Catholicism green up to the present day.[/quote]

[Aloysius]

of course, the majority of priests who are not mature enough or prepared for celibacy tend to break their vows by affairs with adults (women or men depending on their orientation). but you make a great point about how unnatural marriage itself is for the same reasons, and the sources of the article (Kinsey, et al.) would likely agree and be against monogamy the same way they're against celibacy. both celibacy and monogamy involve CHASTITY, something which is foreign to a worldly mind.

[she_who_is_not]

Short answer: No.

Why did you get a get a short answer: Because tiny purple type is the devil.

[BigJon16]

As someone who is "attracted" to the Priesthood, I have gotten such responses when talking with certain people: "What are you, gay?" or "Do you like little boys or something?" Most of the time these people are joking, but I still make a point to tell them "No" in a firm and truthful way.

Now I would say, that as a straight male who is "attracted" to the Priesthood, that the argument that the Priesthood attracts gays is, therefore, invalid. Like I said, "straight" and "attracted to the Priesthood"...


And I would also say, because of a the way a few people around my school who are homosexuals act, is that gays aren't attracted to celibacy either. But that is a generalization, as I don't have any facts to support this.

Edited November 5, 2011 by BigJon16

[Winchester]

[img]http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g282/whiteshark_2006/xzibit-happy-1.jpg[/img]

[Winchester]

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/114302-is-god-a-moral-monster/

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/116180-wtc-7/

[southern california guy]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1320504564' post='2331836']
No. It doesn't.

If celibacy caused homosexuality or paedophilia, then every person who remains celibate until they get married would turn gay long before they reached the altar. And they would turn into paedophiles to boot. I'm twenty-four and unmarried, hoping to take vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience (God willing), and I don't envisage myself suddenly morphing into either a lesbian or a child abuser.

Paedophilia is about power and control and abuse. There are many priests who are unfaithful to their promises by having a sexual relationship with grown adult women (or grown adult men), just as there are married people who are unfaithful to their spouses by doing exactly the same. But while a celibate person might be tempted to break their vows, it doesn't logically follow that they will do so by abusing children.

Aloysius is right about prevalence rates. Child sexual abuse is common, and a great deal of it is incestuous - something I know from working with very vulnerable teenagers and various child protection agencies. Fathers who abuse their own children aren't celibate.
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Taking a vow of celibacy for the [b]entire rest of your life[/b] is very different from remaining celibate before marriage. A celibate person looking to marry does not necessarily repress their sexual feelings or thoughts. They're not repressing their feelings and desire for women.