OnlySunshine Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 How are Catholics supposed to forgive? Do we forgive and forget and get on with our lives, or can we cut that person out of our lives if we feel its necessary because we cannot get along? I have one relative who finds ways to be nasty to me and is emotionally abusive. We had our last spat in July and, since then, we haven't talked because she has not apologized. I have had to put on a brave face since I was 14 and have had to put up with her because I live at home. But I cannot tolerate her abuse any longer. My mom, who is one of her nearest relations, keeps telling me that I am not forgiving her if I can't find ways to mend our relationship. The problem is, that relative sent a terrible letter to my mom insulting me and telling her that she wouldn't hang out with me anymore because I was "disrespectful" towards her, which is untrue. She believes that any difference of opinion from me is disrespect but I know better that it is not. I feel like this is cutting a wedge between me and my mom. I don't want anything to do with that particular relative, but my mom won't let me make my own decisions without some serious arguing. Am I doing the Christian thing? I honestly don't know from all our fighting. My therapist has yet to give me a straightforward answer. Must I put on a brave face and deal with the emotional issues? I have depression and am thinking of my sanity. I've been doing well lately since keeping my distance from my relative. We were riding to Church together every Sunday and, since she lives close by, we did things on the weekend, but all that has changed because of her letter and the way I feel. Please let me know. I want to do the right thing here without sounding childish. I hate posting this for everyone to see and I know I'm not giving both sides of the story because I have no idea what my relative would say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peach_cube Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I find if someone doesn't ask or seek forgiveness, the only thing I can do is be prepared to forgive them should they ever ask. In doing that I find that I have forgiven them long before they are prepared to be forgiven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpence Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 We discussed the very topic at a parish discussion/meeting/learning thingy that I went to last week!! We concluded that when one person is abusive to another and is unrepentant it is FINE for the victim to avoid the other person! As long as you have done what you could to make it known that you have no ill will for the other person (and it sounds like you have) I would say you are fine; pray for them and carry on with your life! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 What the others have said is true. Despite our best efforts, there are some situations where struggling to keep that tie would be extremely unhealthy and/or spiritually toxic for you. Do what you can, but don't run [i]yourself [/i]into the ground trying to salvage something that will just hurt you more later. I have talked to several priests about this, and they are all in agreement. Forgiveness doesn't have to mean perfect harmony, or even anything close. It's simply about moving past the hurt and leaving it totally in God's hands. Good luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 [quote name='peach_cube' timestamp='1320274755' post='2330485'] I find if someone doesn't ask or seek forgiveness, the only thing I can do is be prepared to forgive them should they ever ask. In doing that I find that I have forgiven them long before they are prepared to be forgiven. [/quote] [quote name='sixpence' timestamp='1320275125' post='2330486'] We discussed the very topic at a parish discussion/meeting/learning thingy that I went to last week!! We concluded that when one person is abusive to another and is unrepentant it is FINE for the victim to avoid the other person! As long as you have done what you could to make it known that you have no ill will for the other person (and it sounds like you have) I would say you are fine; pray for them and carry on with your life! [/quote] Thank you both for your responses. I feel as though I have been scrupulous over this the past few months. I honestly want to say that I harbor no ill-will towards her. I don't wish her pain or suffering, but I don't feel as though I can be around her. I want nothing more than her happiness, whatever that means. I hope to see her in heaven, too. How do I get my mom to understand that I don't have to forget what she has done to forgive her? She is constantly telling me that if I don't speak to the other person or do things for her, than I haven't forgiven her. But I feel that would be inviting her to continue her behavior. I don't know how to explain this to my mom in a way she will understand. She has a hard time being impartial because she lives with me and is also related to the person I am not speaking to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
she_who_is_not Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 I have some difficult relationships and have thought about this quite a bit. First, I think it is necessary to differentiate between forgiveness and reconciliation. Forgiveness is the action we perform internally. Reconciliation consists of the actions we take to restore our relationship. Forgiveness is personal. Reconciliation is cooperative. The sacrament of penance illustrates this idea. God forgives us. We participate in our reconciliation through the performance of penitential acts. Forgiveness consists of unhooking or letting go of the emotional response to hurt and anger. Forgiveness requires a person to take full responsibility for his/her feelings. When another person has caused me pain, I must examine within myself why I feel pain. Is my pride wounded? Did they hit a sore spot? Am I misinterpreting or overreacting? Then, I have to make a choice to let it go. I have to say, "You did something. I got hurt/angry/upset. I am the only person who controls my emotions. I can handle my pain. I choose to let it go. I forgive you." It may take a few rounds of going through this process before you feel it stick. I intersperse this kind of "self-talk" with prayer. "Lord, teach me forgiveness, Help me to let this go." The important part is that you find a way to diffuse your emotional reaction. You don't have to justify the other persons actions. You don't have to feel all sunshine and happiness about them. You just let that emotion go. Now, reconciliation is the tricky part. Sometimes, you can forgive but never really reconcile. I experienced some trauma in my past and while I am able to forgive the perpetrators, for various reasons I am not reconciled with them. That is not to say that persons who experience trauma cannot experience reconciliation, it just isn't what I'm looking for. That's an aside. I think in your case, once you practice forgiveness the reconciliation will work itself out. You may also need to learn some skills to deal with your aunt's hurtful attitude/comments. You might want to discuss boundary setting with your therapist. The other party may be unwilling to reconcile but that shouldn't interfere with your ability to forgive. I think for me the critical aspect of learning to forgive was realizing that it was about me. Holding on to my anger did not punish the other person. It only hurt me. I let it go so I could feel better and get on with my life. It is also something that takes practice, but once you really start to get the hang of it you will experience some real spiritual lightening and relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 [quote name='she_who_is_not' timestamp='1320275592' post='2330489'] I have some difficult relationships and have thought about this quite a bit. First, I think it is necessary to differentiate between forgiveness and reconciliation. Forgiveness is the action we perform internally. Reconciliation consists of the actions we take to restore our relationship. Forgiveness is personal. Reconciliation is cooperative. The sacrament of penance illustrates this idea. God forgives us. We participate in our reconciliation through the performance of penitential acts. Forgiveness consists of unhooking or letting go of the emotional response to hurt and anger. Forgiveness requires a person to take full responsibility for his/her feelings. When another person has caused me pain, I must examine within myself why I feel pain. Is my pride wounded? Did they hit a sore spot? Am I misinterpreting or overreacting? Then, I have to make a choice to let it go. I have to say, "You did something. I got hurt/angry/upset. I am the only person who controls my emotions. I can handle my pain. I choose to let it go. I forgive you." It may take a few rounds of going through this process before you feel it stick. I intersperse this kind of "self-talk" with prayer. "Lord, teach me forgiveness, Help me to let this go." The important part is that you find a way to diffuse your emotional reaction. You don't have to justify the other persons actions. You don't have to feel all sunshine and happiness about them. You just let that emotion go. Now, reconciliation is the tricky part. Sometimes, you can forgive but never really reconcile. I experienced some trauma in my past and while I am able to forgive the perpetrators, for various reasons I am not reconciled with them. That is not to say that persons who experience trauma cannot experience reconciliation, it just isn't what I'm looking for. That's an aside. I think in your case, once you practice forgiveness the reconciliation will work itself out. You may also need to learn some skills to deal with your aunt's hurtful attitude/comments. You might want to discuss boundary setting with your therapist. The other party may be unwilling to reconcile but that shouldn't interfere with your ability to forgive. [b]I think for me the critical aspect of learning to forgive was realizing that it was about me. Holding on to my anger did not punish the other person. It only hurt me. I let it go so I could feel better and get on with my life. It is also something that takes practice, but once you really start to get the hang of it you will experience some real spiritual lightening and relief.[/b] [/quote] I really like the last paragraph. That is so true. I realize that my aunt has no knowledge of my internal pain -- only I do. I MUST make the effort to forgive her. There are times it still stings because it was so recent and that's when it takes a little act of self-will to forgive her again. It only happened that one time, so why should I keep internalizing it? I really want to work on this with my therapist. She has been such a help to me and is constantly asking me about how things are going. I know she cares. She is the first therapist I've had who remembers everything without looking at a chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 What everyone has said is totally spot on; you've made an effort, and if that person has been abusive, you might need to just let go for a bit. I know it took forever to forgive my father. You've definitely got my prayers though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theoketos Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Love abusers by dumping them if they refuse to change. Set boundaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 (edited) You all have definitely set my mind at ease. I know this is a work-in-progress. The human side of me wants to never forgive, but I am a Christian and it is my duty to forgive others like Christ forgave me. I keep thinking of The Lord's Prayer: [i]Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive others who trespass against us...[/i] My pastor gave a homily on that a while back and stated that the duty to forgive is real. To err is human, but to forgive is divine. Edited November 2, 2011 by MaterMisericordiae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 [quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1320272950' post='2330471'] How are Catholics supposed to forgive? Do we forgive and forget and get on with our lives, or can we cut that person out of our lives if we feel its necessary because we cannot get along? Am I doing the Christian thing? I honestly don't know from all our fighting. My therapist has yet to give me a straightforward answer. Must I put on a brave face and deal with the emotional issues? I have depression and am thinking of my sanity. I've been doing well lately since keeping my distance from my relative. We were riding to Church together every Sunday and, since she lives close by, we did things on the weekend, but all that has changed because of her letter and the way I feel. Please let me know. I want to do the right thing here without sounding childish. I hate posting this for everyone to see and I know I'm not giving both sides of the story because I have no idea what my relative would say.[/quote] please, if you can, find and read the book '[url="http://www.amazon.com/Facing-Forgiveness-Catholics-Welcoming-Reconciliation/dp/1594711224/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320276988&sr=8-1"]Facing Forgiveness[/url]', it changed how i view forgiving someone. i wrote up some blog posts about this, if you are interested: [url="http://oxyparadoxy.blogspot.com/2011/08/enslaving-ourselves-trespasses.html"]Enslaving Ourselves[/url], [url="http://oxyparadoxy.blogspot.com/2011/09/gift-to-yourself-as.html"]A Gift To Yourself[/url], and [url="http://oxyparadoxy.blogspot.com/2011/09/act-of-will-we-forgive.html"]An Act of the Will[/url]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
she_who_is_not Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1320277164' post='2330503'] please, if you can, find and read the book '[url="http://www.amazon.com/Facing-Forgiveness-Catholics-Welcoming-Reconciliation/dp/1594711224/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320276988&sr=8-1"]Facing Forgiveness[/url]', it changed how i view forgiving someone. i wrote up some blog posts about this, if you are interested: [url="http://oxyparadoxy.blogspot.com/2011/08/enslaving-ourselves-trespasses.html"]Enslaving Ourselves[/url], [url="http://oxyparadoxy.blogspot.com/2011/09/gift-to-yourself-as.html"]A Gift To Yourself[/url], and [url="http://oxyparadoxy.blogspot.com/2011/09/act-of-will-we-forgive.html"]An Act of the Will[/url]. [/quote] Thanks Lil Red. I just downloaded this to my kindle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1320277164' post='2330503'] please, if you can, find and read the book '[url="http://www.amazon.com/Facing-Forgiveness-Catholics-Welcoming-Reconciliation/dp/1594711224/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320276988&sr=8-1"]Facing Forgiveness[/url]', it changed how i view forgiving someone. i wrote up some blog posts about this, if you are interested: [url="http://oxyparadoxy.blogspot.com/2011/08/enslaving-ourselves-trespasses.html"]Enslaving Ourselves[/url], [url="http://oxyparadoxy.blogspot.com/2011/09/gift-to-yourself-as.html"]A Gift To Yourself[/url], and [url="http://oxyparadoxy.blogspot.com/2011/09/act-of-will-we-forgive.html"]An Act of the Will[/url]. [/quote] Thank you so much for these links Lil Red. I read them with great interest because I have been having problems at work with two hostile women and I have been struggling with this whole issue. I especially loved this part... [quote] For myself, realizing that forgiveness did not equal reconciliation, forgiveness did not equal lovey-dovey feelings, was a big load off my shoulders. I used to think that when you forgive someone, that meant that you had to feel like you loved them, that you had to be best friends, that you would automatically have this friendship with them. [/quote] Last night was particularly hard with the offender making really personally hurtful statements about me. When I got home, I replayed the scenes over and over again in my mind, as we often do, wondering what I could have said or done to have changed the situation, and realising that this person was 'spoiling for a fight' and really wanted to hurt me. I tried praying for this person (and the other hostile one who wasn't at work last night) and asked God to help me 'bless my enemies'. One priest told me once that if I couldn't 'love' someone, I could at least have compassion for them, which is a form of love. I do like the idea of forgiveness being a gift to oneself, and that forgiving doesn't necessarily mean reconciling. And the part about being 'woundable' was beautiful... [i]To forgive is not to be outwardly “nice” and inside to plot vengeance. To forgive is to open our arms and heart wide, to remain woundable—as Christ did on the Cross.[/i] Thank you again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I forgave the man who attacked me years ago. I did it for me, not for him. Carrying hate or anger inside me, punishes me, not him. It gives him control over me. He can't have power unless I give it to him. I take away his power by forgiving him and living the happiest and healthiest life I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1320277164' post='2330503'] please, if you can, find and read the book '[url="http://www.amazon.com/Facing-Forgiveness-Catholics-Welcoming-Reconciliation/dp/1594711224/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1320276988&sr=8-1"]Facing Forgiveness[/url]', it changed how i view forgiving someone. i wrote up some blog posts about this, if you are interested: [url="http://oxyparadoxy.blogspot.com/2011/08/enslaving-ourselves-trespasses.html"]Enslaving Ourselves[/url], [url="http://oxyparadoxy.blogspot.com/2011/09/gift-to-yourself-as.html"]A Gift To Yourself[/url], and [url="http://oxyparadoxy.blogspot.com/2011/09/act-of-will-we-forgive.html"]An Act of the Will[/url]. [/quote] That's so interesting that you mentioned that book because I googled "Catholic forgiveness" and got that book's listing on Amazon. I am buying it! If I like it enough, I'll let my mom look at it so she understands forgiveness better. I don't like the idea of allowing a person to walk all over you. I keep trying to explain it, but it's not getting through. Thanks for the tips on the other books. Edited November 3, 2011 by MaterMisericordiae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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