On Monastic Marketing

[marigold]

[quote name='sistersintigo' timestamp='1320186477' post='2329972']

What is your opinion of "Die Grosse Stille," known in English as "Into Great Silence," about the motherhouse of the Carthusian order?
The success of the film itself, the audience response to same?
[/quote]

I enjoyed it very much. I think it had the two factors of being visually stunning and being about strict shy monks - if the film had been only one of those factors, it wouldn't have been the success it was. It did seem to strike a chord (or hit a nerve ) at the right time. Perhap it showed how hungry we are for real, eternal things. Or perhaps it proved us to be the voyeurs we are! I think only time will tell what kind of an impact it had. I can guess that Grande Chartreuse has had a few more inquiries since then, but whether they persevere, who knows? We'll find out on the last day, and not on a blog, and that's something I'm thankful for, although I can't pinpoint why.

[NovemberFourth]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1320234332' post='2330180']


Certainly Benedictines are much more oriented towards hospitality, but even there, they have a 'guestmistress' (or other name for the same thing) who handles most of the interaction with guests, while the rest of the community maintains the cloistered environment. I noticed this particularly in the DVD The Abbey about a fairly modern Benedictine community in Australia. They had five women come to stay with them and live their life for 33 days (although they stayed in a guest house) and there were only three nuns who interested with them apart from the their time in choir, or when they were allowed a special day for a BBQ with all the community for a Clothing. It appeared that one of the nuns was the main guest mistress while the others were especially selected to help with the 'mentoring' they had during their stay.
[/quote]

Nunsense,
I would love to see this DVD I have had a quick look on Amazon and cannot find it, do you know where I might find a copy?
There was a similiar one in the UK The Convent - which was with the Poor Clares at Arundel but it was never made into a DVD and I missed it when it aired.
Many thanks

[mme_hardy]

This is an interesting and provocative question. I was fascinated by this excellent Carthusian site ([url="http://transfiguration.chartreux.org/"]Monastery of the Transfiguration)[/url], which talked about the Carthusians explicitly choosing not to promote their worthy members as saints, because it goes against the purpose of the Carthusian vocation, the suppression of self. (The rare exceptions are Carthusians who were called outside the monastery as Bishops, as well as martyrs.) If you look at that Website, it is beautifully austere, entirely focused on the nature of the vocation -- pages and pages, quoting the Rule directly -- and not at all about the people who currently live and worship there. There are some glorious pictures of the landscape, but the majority of the page is text. I spent a couple of hours reading it a few weeks ago.

It seems to me that that site allows the Carthusians to explain their vocation to people who might not know it existed; because of the nature of the Carthusian vocation, people can't stumble in and interact with the monks. The Charterhouse of the Transfiguration is, again by the nature of the vocation, hidden in a valley in Vermont, and it's the only Carthusian monastery in the United States.

For a deeply cloistered order such as the Carthusians, there needs to be some way to make the monastery visible to seekers without breaking the monks' seclusion. This site seems to me like an excellent compromise.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='NovemberFourth' timestamp='1320253578' post='2330322']

Nunsense,
I would love to see this DVD I have had a quick look on Amazon and cannot find it, do you know where I might find a copy?
There was a similiar one in the UK The Convent - which was with the Poor Clares at Arundel but it was never made into a DVD and I missed it when it aired.
Many thanks
[/quote]


I don't know if the DVD is available outside of Australia - it was a production of the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Corp) and I checked it out from the library after first watching it in the last Carmel I was in.

Here is a link to the ABC page
[url="http://www.abc.net.au/tv/theabbey/video.htm"]http://www.abc.net.au/tv/theabbey/video.htm[/url]
They have a shop online but make sure the video format is okay for you - we use the PAL system here not NTSC.

But I did come across this article online about a Tyburn video (there is a link to the full article on Zenit but I didn't click that yet. There is also an email address to order the Tyburn video.
[url="http://www.cloisteredlife.com/"]http://www.cloisteredlife.com/[/url]

Edited November 3, 2011 by nunsense

[AccountDeleted]

Here is the link to buying the DVD - but it does say to play on Australian DVD players (you might have one that has international format- be sure to check first).

There are several video clips on the first link I posted though.

[Digitaldame]

I don't know how many monks and nuns have actually replied to this question. Back in 2003 our community decided that, as we had very limited facilities, we would make the internet our guesthouse, so to say. We did so after much prayer and discussion of the Rule of St Benedict, chapter 53. It has been demanding but in many ways much less disruptive than if we had a succession of guests staying with us. (If you are not a member of a religious community, you may not quite 'get' that: guests can make huge inroads on community time.) I would say that anyone who is sincere about his/her vocation and who undertakes internet work [b]as an obedience[/b] is in no danger, provided they pray and live the common life, etc. Living in community cuts everyone down to size, believe me. Diocesan priests don't have the support of community, and don't always undertake internet work as an obedience.

[marigold]

Thanks Sr. Catherine. Having thought about it some more I think perhaps - in the culture we live in - it's beneficial for monasteries to pipe up occasionally and say, 'We're here!' And a web presence may well be a big part of that. I particularly like your community's emphasis on being able to meet people's needs while maintaining peace and quiet - the monastery I'm entering next year got into having an online store for the same reason. It was a huge benefit to them not to have to go out into the marketplaces or live above the shop so to speak.

What I find distasteful - downright dangerous - about monastics online is when they seem overly enamoured of a certain take on the life, usually romantic/historical, and use a lot of Adobe Flash Player to show us that. It's not prudent and it's not helpful to anyone, to the monastics, to aspiring monastics, or to Average Joe who comes across a website by accident. How can we convince Average Joe that monastic life is not a) cloud-floating or b) living in a historical re-enactment if what's on the web says loud and proud that that's exactly what we think?

[/rant].

[MarysLittleFlower]

I have found some of the websites really useful, especially if they have advice on discerning... however I do see what you mean.. I think it's good for the religious to limit time on the internet. If they have a website where they try to help others understand and discern religious life, I think that is fine if that is what they want to do.. but I agree there should be a limit (no endless forums, tons of blogging, etc, for a cloistered religious if not under obedience). I have to say though, I enjoy looking at the pictures it can help people who maybe don't know much about religious life or never thought of it. Also if I'm considering looking into an order, it does help to see their pictures, read about what they're all about, etc.

Edited November 5, 2011 by MarysLittleFlower

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='MarysLittleFlower' timestamp='1320468990' post='2331706']
I have found some of the websites really useful, especially if they have advice on discerning... however I do see what you mean.. I think it's good for the religious to limit time on the internet. If they have a website where they try to help others understand and discern religious life, I think that is fine if that is what they want to do.. but I agree there should be a limit (no endless forums, tons of blogging, etc, for a cloistered religious if not under obedience). I have to say though, I enjoy looking at the pictures it can help people who maybe don't know much about religious life or never thought of it. Also if I'm considering looking into an order, it does help to see their pictures, read about what they're all about, etc.
[/quote]


I think it's a bit different having a website for information and allowing a religious to post frequently on blogs and Twitter and other forums. Perhaps as long as it was limited it would be suitable. I also wonder about individual religious who sort of develop an online presence or 'celebrity status' through their posts, perhaps even posting their own opinions as if they were fact, which can be confusing to those who don't realise that not all religious are 'experts' about everything!

I have seen the best of both - great websites that provide information without encouraging 'singularisation' of any one individual within the community, and those that seem to go beyond the scope of cloistered life.

Pope Benedict does ask priests to blog, and perhaps he is also encouraging religious to do this, I am not sure on that point as they have a different charism than parish priests. I just think that anything else in the world, there are pitfalls and dangers that need to be considered.

[Digitaldame]

I certainly would agree with you, marigold, that purveying a romantic or overly historical view of monastic life is wrong. Some communities do that, but often you find that they are communities which have had to rely on an outside web developer to do their web site, etc. Trying to get someone to understand monastic life from the outside is hard work. That's likely to be less of a problem in future as more web-savvy younger people enter communities.

I've never met any religious, MarysLittleFlower, who doesn't limit time on the internet. We all have other things to do! However, if religious didn't give time to the internet; if, for example, religious never took any part in this forum, all you'd get would be the experience of people who have, at most, spent one or two years in community as a novice or junior and never persevered to understand what being faithjful to a vocation for many years entailed. We all grow in understanding and I would hope it's helpful if people who've been in religious life for many years, who've been novice directors and superiors, occasionally put their perspective.

Nunsense, if and when you become a nun, you will find that there are lots of lay people who will tell you how to be a nun, possibly make rash judgements about you and your community and think they know it all, but you will have to hold fast to what you believe to be right. If you are asked to take on an internet ministry, give it your best. Most of what you do will be unseen. I often think our own internet outreach is tip-of-the-iceberg: the emails and so on that we receive are very telling. As I said, I think most monks and nuns are rather more focused than perhaps you give them credit for being; I also think most readers of blogs are more intelligent than you seem to give them credit for being. We're usually quick to spot humbug!

Of course there are pitfalls with any kind of outreach. We've seen priests 'go off the rails', but when you look into the history of their going off the rails, you usually find that they have abandoned the practice of prayer or adopted an affluent lifestyle inconsistent with their priesthood. That's why I think community is such a great help.

As to nuns blogging, the Vatican has asked me to write about blogging as a cloistered nun (I was invited to the Vatican blogfest in May) and I've received a great deal of encouragement about our online ministry; I don't know about monks, but would imagine there would be the same sort of appreciation of what we are all trying to do.

(Just in case you are wondering what my own experience is: I've been a nun for 30 years but didn't give my first talk until after I'd been 18 years in the cloister. Benedictines believe in a long training!)

[AccountDeleted]

ouch

'If and when' I become a nun perhaps I will feel differently. Now is now.

Edited November 5, 2011 by nunsense

[marigold]

I don't think she was trying to be catty, nunsense. My abbess is always referring to 'testing your vocation' and 'if you persevere'.

Sr. Catherine, I hadn't thought of communities getting outside developers who didn't really understand the life. I'll try and remember next time I look down my nose at a website...

(Speaking of which, mme hardy, I looked on the Vermont Carthusian website and found it totally appropriate to who they are. Quiet, reserved without being unfriendly, that little FAQ was a nice touch, and I imagine it doesn't need updating often )

So monks and nuns online is okay with some boundaries - everyone seems to think there is such a thing as 'too many' forums or blog posts, but maybe we won't go into how many is too many But how does having an online presence (interesting how this has moved onto websites only and bypassed newsletters, calendars etc.) affect newcomers in the community who have seen the website, maybe even made contact via it? If they already know what every room in the house looks like, if they already know the funny story about what happened last year on St. Michael's feastday, etc.? That [i]is[/i] historically unprecedented, and how does it affect the experience of the newcomer and the community?

[Digitaldame]

I can assure you I used the phrase 'if and when you become a nun' quite innocently and am sorry for the offence it has given. We use it regularly and it implies no judgement upon the person. It is just a reminder that everything is in God's hands, including our perseverance.

[bernadette d]

[quote name='Digitaldame' timestamp='1320496015' post='2331788']
I can assure you I used the phrase 'if and when you become a nun' quite innocently and am sorry for the offence it has given. We use it regularly and it implies no judgement upon the person. It is just a reminder that everything is in God's hands, including our perseverance.
[/quote]
I feel for Nunsense because I believe her to be a genuine person, one who prays much and leaves things in God's hands. She has encountered much hardship along the way to this point, and is very aware that whatever the outcome it will be for the best.
I realise of course that no offence was meant. May God bless you all