On Monastic Marketing

[marigold]

This is an excerpt from a book called [i]Beauty For Ashes: The Spiritual Transformation of a Modern Greek Community[/i]:

[i]Having visited literally hundreds of monasteries in my research, I have collected a great number of momentos bearing the insignias of particular monasteries. I have calendars with pictures of abbots with various people; I have glossy books filled with pictures of religious treasures and the monastic way of life; and I have CDs of their choirs chanting. I can show friends publicity newsletters and web sites of monasteries I have visited. Many contemporary monasteries seem to excel at self-promotion.[/i]

[i]The monastery in Preveza is very different. It has no newsletter, no colorful calendar, no picture books, and no web site. It does not sell a single item in its store bearing its name. It barely has a sign indicating its presence in Famboura. This anonymity is not due to a lack of organization but rather to a conscious emphasis by Bishop Meletios that one of the primary virtues of the monk should be afania (anonymity). As one monk told me: "He doesn’t want to make publicity because he says it is a great shame for a pastor to say that I helped the poor or I built this thing or went and preached in the churches – this is my job; it is not something to be proud of. It is the least I can do. So, you don’t write in the paper that I celebrated the liturgy in this or that region. It is much more serious than that and you have to do much more."[/i]

[i]-[/i]

I think this is a really interesting think to think about, particularly in terms of websites. We could all probably agree that, while there are [i]many[/i] monasteries still off the 'digital map', there is a proliferation of monasteries (convents, religious institutes, what have you) which have a lot to say for themselves. There is something a bit unsettling about a monastery website that is a little [i]too[/i] slick, and I am always inclined to distrust them. Yet, I enjoy nun pictures as much as the next person - and made initial contact with the monastery I'm entering via, you guessed it, their website.

This leads me on to think about the monasteries which have experienced increased vocations in line with their website expansion. It would be a simple equation (website=more vocations) if it weren't that there are also some monasteries with a lot of vocations which don't have any web presence. Is a website dangerous self-promotion, or has it become as basic as an entry in the phone book? Does promoting your community betray a lack of trust in the Lord bringing people if they are really meant to be there?(I guess I'm thinking specifically of those communities which do not work in the world.) And what of anonymity, a virtue in monastic life? Do websites - and calendars, newsletters, CDs - compromise this, or do they help preserve it, since by sending out information the physical monastery presumably won't get as many 'tourists'... Thoughts?

[marigold]

Another thought: perhaps it's difficult to imagine a monastery getting [i]over[/i]-exposure in this society. We might think, the more the merrier - most people won't even know monasteries exist these days, let alone thriving ones.

But I do still feel uncomfortable every time I read about another monastery getting a film made about it (!) - It's not us who are interesting.

[sistersintigo]

[quote name='marigold' timestamp='1320184397' post='2329952']
But I do still feel uncomfortable every time I read about another monastery getting a film made about it (!) - It's not us who are interesting.
[/quote]

What is your opinion of "Die Grosse Stille," known in English as "Into Great Silence," about the motherhouse of the Carthusian order?
The success of the film itself, the audience response to same?

[AccountDeleted]

This is an interesting point. I know that as an Internet user, I certainly find it a lot easier to locate potential communities online, but I also understand any reservations about 'too much' exposure. Whenever the invisible 'line' gets crossed into 'too much' exposure, I feel that the community itself is being glorified rather than God.

On the other hand, I get frustrated at communities who do have an internet presence and even offer an email address but then never respond to their emails, perhaps because they don't really know how to use it and a friend or benefactor has set up their website for them. It is a very fine line I guess.

[brandelynmarie]

Right now, my thoughts are that what matters is the focus or reason behind websites & gift shops. Do they give glory to God & draw people closer to Him? (Contemplating & sharing the fruits of contemplation as the Dominicans say?) Are the communities able to maintain the silence & solitude of their members? For me, a blog or a website would be like a brief meeting in the parlour, but this would be digital rather than in real time...I am given glimpes into their lives, but as long as it does not disturb their way of life, their horarium, I think that is good. I can see both the pros & cons of this...I enjoy the blogs that have a homespun feel, where I can see the humanness & humor of the sisters as well as their love for God! If things get too commercialized, "too slick" & the focus becomes solely on "come join us, here's our ammentities" (& I have seen some like that!) then I do have a problem with that. As to whether websites help contribute to anonymity & reduce "tourists", I'm still thinking about that one...Most excellent, marigold!

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='brandelynmarie' timestamp='1320197997' post='2330037']
Right now, my thoughts are that what matters is the focus or reason behind websites & gift shops. Do they give glory to God & draw people closer to Him? (Contemplating & sharing the fruits of contemplation as the Dominicans say?) Are the communities able to maintain the silence & solitude of their members? For me, a blog or a website would be like a brief meeting in the parlour, but this would be digital rather than in real time...I am given glimpes into their lives, but as long as it does not disturb their way of life, their horarium, I think that is good. I can see both the pros & cons of this...I enjoy the blogs that have a homespun feel, where I can see the humanness & humor of the sisters as well as their love for God! If things get too commercialized, "too slick" & the focus becomes solely on "come join us, here's our ammentities" (& I have seen some like that!) then I do have a problem with that. As to whether websites help contribute to anonymity & reduce "tourists", I'm still thinking about that one...Most excellent, marigold!
[/quote]


Yes, yes, this. And I think sometimes an internet presence might put too much focus on one or another of the members of the community - make them a sort of 'internet celebrity'. This worries me as it can lead to the problems we have seen with 'celebrity priests' who end up 'doing their own thing' and glorifying themselves rather than God.

It is a fine line, with pro and con on either side. Too much 'busyness' and 'attention seeking, whether online or in 'real life' just seems detrimental to the whole concept of religious life.

[EWIE]

[color=#800000][b][size=5]IMHO- In todays world of media, having a website is a blessing for all involved, but I have to draw the line, especially for contemplative nuns belonging to "forums". I know of at least 2 NM's of contemplative orders who are on many, many forums and I don't know how they manage to maintain an interior silence. For the reader, any info needed may be obtained by directly communicating with the order. For hermits, even if our work is on the internet, to veer off that course allows too many voices to violate the sanctuary of our minds..[/size][/b][/color]

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='EWIE' timestamp='1320198842' post='2330056']
[color=#800000][b][size=5]IMHO- In todays world of media, having a website is a blessing for all involved, but I have to draw the line, especially for contemplative nuns belonging to "forums". I know of at least 2 NM's of contemplative orders who are on many, many forums and I don't know how they manage to maintain an interior silence. For the reader, any info needed may be obtained by directly communicating with the order. For hermits, even if our work is on the internet, to veer off that course allows too many voices to violate the sanctuary of our minds..[/size][/b][/color]
[/quote]


Yes, Ewie - spot on here. I too see a certain 'seduction' by the Internet that occurs when one is online too much. We know it here as phatmassers that sometimes we find ourselves online too much, and yet we are all seculars. For a religious (especially a cloistered religious) it can be so easy to start off with good intentions for the proper use of the Internet via email, blogs, forums and chat rooms, and then slide into it as an 'escape' from the pressures of monastic life or perhaps even use it as a way to get some sort of 'self satisfaction' at one's own posts. There are a couple of communities that seem to have taken the whole Internet experience too far.... but that's a personal observation that can't be validated - just my own feelings.

One religious blogger did say that she wished she didn't have permission to be online so much because she found herself wasting time (we all know the feeling of being 'sucked into it' I think. I have to limit my own online experience sometimes just to return my focus to God. It's a bit like finally turning off the TV after realising that I have been mindlessly watching it for awhile. As soon as the room goes silent, I wonder why I hadn't turned it off sooner!

I do think that email is as acceptable as mail or phones or faxes, but like all of those, it needs regulation so as not to intrude on the monastic life. And research online for specific projects makes more sense than trying to locate information in a library these days, but as with all things, common sense applies.

It's funny though, because although I can see the dangers... I also appreciate the communities that at least have some website presence and an email address that they answer!! Call me inconsistent.

[Maximilianus]

I know one thing for sure. If it weren't for websites, the internet in general, I would know squat about the consecrated religious life. Not all diocese are very ardent about getting that info out or have a religious presence... like mine. I'm hoping since our new bishop is a friar this will change.

I guess, in a rhetorical case of there being no such thing as websites, that if someone was called to consecrated life they would go through the effort of contacting the diocese and asking about religious orders, but it sure helps when you have an introduction to them, when you at least know it as a viable option. I'm willing to bet that if you ask the average kid in my parish about religious orders, to them it's some foreign antiquated idea that they have never given any consideration.

If a community chooses to have a website it doesn't have to be all fancy. Just some basic info like liturgy, history and spirituality.

Edited November 2, 2011 by Maximilianus

[bernadette d]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1320199974' post='2330067']


Yes, Ewie - spot on here. I too see a certain 'seduction' by the Internet that occurs when one is online too much. We know it here as phatmassers that sometimes we find ourselves online too much, and yet we are all seculars.
[/quote]
This brings to mind a line from Kiplings poem "If"

[font=Arial]"If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,"[/font]

Also, (and I am sure many of you will know this quote far better than I do) a saint once said that they never leave a conversation fully at ease. Internet could magnify this I think.


Corrected typo

Edited November 2, 2011 by bernadette d

[krissylou]

It seems to me that different charisms might be really relevant here.

For a Benedictine, for instance, I could easily see a robust web presence as part of 21st century hospitality. And hospitality isn't a distraction from Benedictine life, it IS Benedictine life.

My dad was telling me one time that we often think of monks and nuns as "getting away from the world" but Monte Cassino (Benedict's own monastery) is right along the main road from Rome to Naples. (Essentially the same route has been used since Roman times and it definitely would have been a heavily travelled route in Benedict's day.) He's seen it. All these people are along the road, and Monte Cassino is just so obvious! There it is!

Now if you're thinking of monastic life as getting away from the world, well putting your monastery there would be distinctly poor planning! But if you're in a strategic retreat from the world, but as a resource to the world, then it's a perfect spot!

Carmelites would have a different approach. And Dominicans, Poor Clares, etc., would likely be at various points in between.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='krissylou' timestamp='1320233991' post='2330179']
It seems to me that different charisms might be really relevant here.

For a Benedictine, for instance, I could easily see a robust web presence as part of 21st century hospitality. And hospitality isn't a distraction from Benedictine life, it IS Benedictine life.

My dad was telling me one time that we often think of monks and nuns as "getting away from the world" but Monte Cassino (Benedict's own monastery) is right along the main road from Rome to Naples. (Essentially the same route has been used since Roman times and it definitely would have been a heavily travelled route in Benedict's day.) He's seen it. All these people are along the road, and Monte Cassino is just so obvious! There it is!

Now if you're thinking of monastic life as getting away from the world, well putting your monastery there would be distinctly poor planning! But if you're in a strategic retreat from the world, but as a resource to the world, then it's a perfect spot!

Carmelites would have a different approach. And Dominicans, Poor Clares, etc., would likely be at various points in between.
[/quote]


Certainly Benedictines are much more oriented towards hospitality, but even there, they have a 'guestmistress' (or other name for the same thing) who handles most of the interaction with guests, while the rest of the community maintains the cloistered environment. I noticed this particularly in the DVD The Abbey about a fairly modern Benedictine community in Australia. They had five women come to stay with them and live their life for 33 days (although they stayed in a guest house) and there were only three nuns who interested with them apart from the their time in choir, or when they were allowed a special day for a BBQ with all the community for a Clothing. It appeared that one of the nuns was the main guest mistress while the others were especially selected to help with the 'mentoring' they had during their stay.

Once again, I think it is a case of common sense. Even the Benedictines could get 'too much Internet' if they aren't careful. Hospitality does not mean becoming one with the world.

[bernadette d]

[quote name='bernadette d' timestamp='1320222465' post='2330164']
This brings to mind a line from Kiplings poem "If"

[font=Arial]"If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,"[/font]

Also, (and I am sure many of you will know this quote far better than I do) a saint once said that they never leave a conversation fully at ease. Internet could magnify this I think.


Corrected typo
[/quote]
This is what I was think of;

Why, indeed, do we converse and gossip among ourselves when we so
seldom part without a troubled conscience.
Imitation of Christ [i]Avoiding Idle Talk[/i]

[Lisa]

I agree with you all; however, when I first started discerning(ish) and the desire for religious life was slowly being awakened within me, the first thing I did was get on the internet. I had no idea that there were that many communities, didn't know what a charism was, and wasn't quite ready to talk to them in person- especially since I didn't even know what I would ask. Communities that had information about their horarium, formation, spiritualities helped me understand what religious life was all about. This might be somewhat more controversial, but I love websites that post vocation stories. They give me something "real" to look at- that someone else went through the struggles of "am I called to this community?, I'm not nun-material," and letting go of their attachment to the world. The community that I'm discerning with also posts reflections for the liturgical year, links to church teaching (like the Rosary for October). That helps the spiritual life of discerners; you can't go wrong with that.

As long as the focus is on how the community glorifies God, it seems completely ok to me. Also, I wouldn't say you can judge a website for how "slick" it is. Often the communities have an outside person set it up and design the template. If they have a friend and supporter who is a professional web developer or if the community has a Sister who once worked in that capacity, that person's obviously going to do his/her best to make sure it looks good for the community.

Also, I'm talking specifically about more active communities, so it might be different to consider Carmel, the Poor Clares, etc. But I wouldn't have even really started to discern formally if it hadn't been for the community's websites, particularly the ones with sections called "Am I Called?/Discerning Religious Life?, etc. that pointed me towards deeper prayer, spiritual direction, and encouraged me to go on a Come and See.

But I also completely agree with all of you about time on the internet. The community I'm discerning with teaches, so the Sisters will eventually all have email for their schools; however, they don't use it for personal communication. But I'm sure they struggle with creating a balance between their responsibilities for the apostolate and their prayer life.

[marigold]

It seems to me that in the last decade, having a website has gone from being a fancy extra thing you might do if you had the resources, to being, like I said before, equivalent to an entry in the phone book. In fact there was only one time I ever looked up a community in the phone book and that was just curiosity. But I've looked up dozens of communities online, and often found rather more than I, as a casual 'tourist' observer, needed to know about the inner life of that community.

My earlier comment about 'it's not us who are interesting' was unclear. I'm not denying that monasteries and monastics (etc.) are very attractive to a lot of people. But the monk in the original quote makes a good point: 'this is my job. It's not something to be proud of. It's the least I can do.' I suppose what we are all agreeing on is that it's dangerous and unattractive when communities appear to 'believe their own hype', particularly in a society where monastic/religious life is not normal. We're unusual, we live a terribly difficult life but still manage to have loads of fun, let's hope you find us as fascinating as we do ourselves! I'll put myself on the line and say that vowing to be dead to the world and maintaining a busy blog doesn't add up.

Makes perfect sense for apostolic communities to have a web presence. Benedictines and those monasteries in the Orthodox Church which emphasise a guest ministry, too. But I think krissylou made an important distinction - maybe unwittingly - in her anecdote about Monte Cassino. The monastery was right on the highway between Rome and Naples, but it didn't send out bulletins saying, 'Did you know, we're right on the highway between Rome and Naples?' It was just there.

(And maybe extensive websites just means that the people who would have been tourists hanging around catching the vibes at various monasteries are now stay-at-home tourists, glued to their computers?)