Carmelite Habit

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Francis Clare' timestamp='1319378267' post='2325639']
It almost sounds as if you'd have to be a mechanical engineer to either get dressed or "tuck-up" ! How long did it take you to master the whole process?
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For the whole first week after clothing, the habit sister would come to 'our' cell in the morning to help me get dressed. At first she would also help pin on the veil, but then she started asking me to try it for myself because when she wasn't there I would have to do it. She also came again at the end of the day (I had early nights the whole first week because the weight of the habit was heavy and made one tired - took getting used to carrying it around all day) and helped me to undress. The habit had to be folded and put away in a specific way. By the end of three days I was okay about getting undressed, but I did appreciate the help for the first week, and the earlier nights.

[Aya Sophia]

Hadn't thought about there being assistance - of course there would be. There was plenty of all kinds in the postulancy. In fact, I remember one Sister saying that, in her day, there was, ahem, too much of it. She often found herself fleeing to the furthest corners of the garden to escape her Angel who was always breathing beneficently down her neck!

What about prayers, putting on or taking off the habit? At KE, at the matraque you kneel up on your bed and say a certain prayer while putting on the first piece of the habit, although the prayer is not associated with that piece or any particular piece of the habit or the act of putting it on - it is specifically to start the day on your knees and with a prayer.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Aya Sophia' timestamp='1319379435' post='2325644']
Hadn't thought about there being assistance - of course there would be. There was plenty of all kinds in the postulancy. In fact, I remember one Sister saying that, in her day, there was, ahem, too much of it. She often found herself fleeing to the furthest corners of the garden to escape her Angel who was always breathing beneficently down her neck!

What about prayers, putting on or taking off the habit? At KE, at the matraque you kneel up on your bed and say a certain prayer while putting on the first piece of the habit, although the prayer is not associated with that piece or any particular piece of the habit or the act of putting it on - it is specifically to start the day on your knees and with a prayer.
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I hear ya! My angel used to drive me crazy too - a little oversolicitous but I knew she had a good heart and meant well. I think one of the hardest things about postulancy is being observed all the time by everyone - self-conscious making! I had to learn how to ignore everyone (in a nice way) so I didn't feel like a bug under a glass.

As for KE customs - they have a little book called the Paper of Extractions as you recall Aya - over 300 little rules and customs to follow. We had to read from this every day as well as from the Rule and Constitutions.

WV had a similar morning prayer upon arising but it must have been one introduced by the French foundress because they didn't have it in either Edmonton (a Belgian foundation originally) or Australia (which was also French but a different foundress).

Edited October 23, 2011 by nunsense

[brandelynmarie]

I think this has been a most useful thread with the rubrics & customs of habit wearing in different communities. It gives many of us an idea of what we may have to deal with...

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='brandelynmarie' timestamp='1319379969' post='2325647']
I think this has been a most useful thread with the rubrics & customs of habit wearing in different communities. It gives many of us an idea of what we may have to deal with...
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And that's only Carmelites - I would love to hear from all the other communities too - I hear the Visitation have over a dozen straight pins they use. I am not sure if these are all in the veil or used in other places around the habit. Their veil and headpiece seem very complicated to me!

[brandelynmarie]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1319316225' post='2325278']
razzle dazzle, thanks! Whoa, when I typed c-o-o-l it posted it as razzle dazzle, hm...
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Now you are catching on . I am not certain who is totally responsible for the philters, but they do seem to have a wonderful sense of humor. For example, c.heese=coagulated milk, I know this. How many philters do we have on here anyways?

Edited October 23, 2011 by brandelynmarie

[the171]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1319366929' post='2325577']


You might find that by the time you get to clothing, you want to be like the other sisters, just to feel a part of the community. In Perth, a few of the older sisters didn't want to make the change so they still wore the old habit, but most new sisters entered thinking they would choose the old one but by the time they got to clothing they felt more of a sense of unity by matching the majority of the community. It is a tough choice to make.
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Just read this. haha sorry. This makes sense. It will probably be the case. Might not be. Most likely though. I love to hear from people who have actually lived the life.

[Aya Sophia]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1319379802' post='2325645']

As for KE customs - they have a little book called the Paper of Extractions as you recall Aya - over 300 little rules and customs to follow. We had to read from this every day as well as from the Rule and Constitutions.
[/quote]

Probably just a typo but it's "Exactions" rather than "Extractions" - to be exact!!! Hard not to feed the inner Jansenist with a title like that - I wonder what it's called in Spanish Carmels? In the Benedicines it was called "The Customary." Don't remember if the habit is covered in the Paper of Exacs although it must be as, what isn't???

Edited October 23, 2011 by Aya Sophia

[Chiara Francesco]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1319380143' post='2325648']


And that's only Carmelites - I would love to hear from all the other communities too - I hear the Visitation have over a dozen straight pins they use. I am not sure if these are all in the veil or used in other places around the habit. Their veil and headpiece seem very complicated to me!
[/quote]


As far as I know, only Tyringham Visitation uses that many pins. A few women I know who went to other full-habited Visitations said they didn't use that many pins.

Also, the Visitation sisters use "The Spiritual Directory" written by St. Francis de Sales and given to them to form the day - besides the rule and constitutions. I've read the slightly modified Spiritual Directory available for lay people.

This site of Salesian Oblates have a great explanation of the Profession Cross the Visitation nuns and Oblates wear: http://www.oblates.us/about-oblates/profession-cross/

And a copy of the Spiritual Directory they use (taken from the nuns' version): http://www.oblates.us/about-oblates/spiritual-directory/

Edited October 23, 2011 by Chiara Francesco

[IgnatiusofLoyola]

I'm overwhelmed as I read this very detailed description of the Carmelite habit. That sure seems like a lot of clothes (as I sit here in underwear and a long T-shirt). Is that standard for cloistered nuns? Or are other Order's habits' simpler? And, what about cloistered versus Active? Are their habits less "complex?"

I only sort of understand the complexity of the habit. I can see wanting to "dress up" for your bridegroom. But the whole thing just doesn't seem very efficient--it's a lot of cloth. A lot of cloth to buy in the first place, then mend.

And, I compare it to the men. Aren't their habits simpler? Or maybe not, because when those who are priest celebrate communion, they have to add another couple of layers.

But, I think of the Trappist monks who wear work clothes during the day--jeans and work shirts, etc.--then have a simple hooded habit that they put over their work clothes when they come in from work for the Office. To me, at least, they seem no less devoted to Christ, and no less holy than women in complex habits.

I'm NOT suggesting lay clothes for women in religious Orders (except perhaps for postulants), but at first glance, all the details of the Carmelite habit don't make sense to me. Note: I am NOT being insulting. People who know me know that I ask questions like this because I'm genuinely interested in an answer, and WANT to understand. Plus, I am going in giving people the benefit of the doubt, and it is just me who is clueless.

Edited October 23, 2011 by IgnatiusofLoyola

[faithcecelia]

It was described to me as you get dressed, and then you pop the habit on top! You can make it wordy as you want, but ultimately even all these clothes take less than 5mins to get on once you have done it often enough, and it saves on washing too as the havits are washed so rarely, and it doesn't matter how scruffy the under layers get!

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Aya Sophia' timestamp='1319385554' post='2325682']

Probably just a typo but it's "Exactions" rather than "Extractions" - to be exact!!! Hard not to feed the inner Jansenist with a title like that - I wonder what it's called in Spanish Carmels? In the Benedicines it was called "The Customary." Don't remember if the habit is covered in the Paper of Exacs although it must be as, what isn't???
[/quote]

Yeah, it was a typo and I changed it - but you probably read it before I did. Quick! The Paper of Exactions did not have a separate section for the habit but there were little instructions throughout it. I remember one about the sisters not taking off their upper veil except when working or sweeping etc.


[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1319411927' post='2325874']
It was described to me as you get dressed, and then you pop the habit on top! You can make it wordy as you want, but ultimately even all these clothes take less than 5mins to get on once you have done it often enough, and it saves on washing too as the havits are washed so rarely, and it doesn't matter how scruffy the under layers get!
[/quote]

At WV, it took a little longer to get dressed. The first week it took nearly the whole half hour between rising and Mental Prayer in the choir, but as I got used to it, I got the time down to 15 minutes. I think the toque and pinning the veils probably took up a little more time than the modified veil did.

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1319412996' post='2325887']




At WV, it took a little longer to get dressed. The first week it took nearly the whole half hour between rising and Mental Prayer in the choir, but as I got used to it, I got the time down to 15 minutes. I think the toque and pinning the veils probably took up a little more time than the modified veil did.
[/quote]

You may be right, but also I think the number of times you do it helps - I changed out of mine almost every morning and half my afternoons for my work, I was also clothed for a year and the longer you are doing something the more natural it becomes, it probably took 4mths or so to get it down to 5mins.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='IgnatiusofLoyola' timestamp='1319411787' post='2325872']
I'm overwhelmed as I read this very detailed description of the Carmelite habit. That sure seems like a lot of clothes (as I sit here in underwear and a long T-shirt).

I'm NOT suggesting lay clothes for women in religious Orders (except perhaps for postulants), but at first glance, all the details of the Carmelite habit don't make sense to me. Note: I am NOT being insulting. People who know me know that I ask questions like this because I'm genuinely interested in an answer, and WANT to understand. Plus, I am going in giving people the benefit of the doubt, and it is just me who is clueless.
[/quote]


Iggy, great questions! As you point out, all communities are different in their choice of clothing. I think that the ones who choose to keep a very 'old fashioned' habit do so because it still works for them. They don't have to grab a shower, pop on their clothes and disappear out the door to work. They have a very structured and well ordered life that takes into account the amount of time required to get into the habit and out of it again. At WV, we didn't do the 'quick changes' that faith talks about in her post. And they don't do the change into work habits like at Edmonton either. At those places they wear a modified habit that takes less time to put on.

Yes, at WV it does take about 15 minutes to get into the habit and probably 5-10 to get out of it and put it all away properly - the sisters who were at WV for years told me this is the minimum required. But that time is allowed for in the schedule. It is a slightly more complex habit than many of the Carmels in the UK. KE still has the full habit and toque (they even have a longer toque than WV) and so does St Helen's. Apart from these two, I think most of the UK Carmels have switched to at least a modified veil.

Speaking as someone who has worn the full habit, and a work habit at Edmonton (with veil), I prefer the full one, and in England's very cold climate (and the choir isn't always heated, especially from May to Oct), kneeling on those cold floorboards, it is so nice to have the extra padding underneath and the warmth on top, especially the headpiece - no drafts getting down the neck! In Perth, during the winter, we wore scarves in choir on our necks because we had the modified veil and our necks were exposed. I prefer the toque.

But then there are so many choices when choosing a community - if the cumbersome of a full habit bothers someone, then they can look elsewhere! But I don't think most people choose a community specifically because of a habit - or at least I hope not.

[Aya Sophia]

I have had close contact over the last couple of years with Carmelite and Visitandine (live-ins with the latter) communities. Both have the full, traditional habits of their Orders but each fits their charism perfectly. The Carmelites are simple, down to earth (literally - they are often on the floor, prostrating, kneeling, sitting on a very low prayer stool, etc.) and even a bit rough and the fabric, the cut, the hang of the habit all fit this ethos perfectly. The Visitandines, on the other hand, are gentle and more refined - they don't "knock about" much. Their habit has a more subtle cut to it and is worn carefully by the Sisters. They also seem to have more developed traditions and customs regarding the habit than do the Carmelites. So, both have full traditional habits but their design and use are very different.