Discerning Contemplative Carmelite Life

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='Aya Sophia' timestamp='1319286852' post='2325093']
Welcome, Claire

Joy and peace to you as you set out on the path of discernment . . .

As you get to know Carmel in 3-D (meaning, in flesh and blood communities) you will begin to see how Carmels can differ significantly, one from another. If Carmel is to be your path to God, eventually you will be drawn and lead to a particular kind of Carmelite life and then to a particular Carmel. For Teresian Carmels, a good way to get a basic understanding of the way the life is lived is to know the Constitutions the community follows, whether 1990 or 1991 (see Chiqui's now famous PM intro to this subject: [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/58540-the-discalced-carmelite-nuns-1990-1991-constitutions/"]http://www.phatmass....-constitutions/[/url]).

It is always a sad discovery for lovers of Carmel to learn that there even are two sets of Constitutions. I have been heartened, at least, in my experience with Carmel thus far, to see that 1990 and 1991 communities, despite their real differences, are not factions on opposing sides but are actually amicably disposed toward and supportive of one another. This means the "face of Carmel" is not so "fractured" as some portray it. Although there are real differences and these differences are codified in the Constitutions, in the hearts of the daughters of St. Teresa, there remains a sisterly bond of love.

So glad you found your way to VS - you'll be well taken care of here!
[/quote]

Thank you, that is great info. I will be sure to read that article and look into the constitutions of each monastary. God Bless.

[InPersonaChriste]

Hello Claire!

I pray for you on your wonderful discernment journey! I am not a Carmelite discerner but I do adore the Carmelite Saint; Teresa de los Andes.

I would encourage you to take your time, close your eyes, and open your heart for the grace to know your vocation. I am a hopeful Benedictine, but I first looked into active communities (Nashville Dominicans, Missionaries of Charity).

I also encourage you to explore into communities, but do not overwhelm yourself. Sometimes we look at to many communities, and then we stop looking into our hearts.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

Thank you, that is beautiful advice. I pray for you on your discernment journey, future Benedictine!

[InPersonaChriste]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1319293317' post='2325129']
Thank you, that is beautiful advice. I pray for you on your discernment journey, future Benedictine!
[/quote]

Thank you Claire!

[FutureSister2009]

Glad to have you hear! I love the Carmelites (although I know I'm not called to them)!

[Guest hermanita]

Hi Claire
I'm discerning with a contemplative/active Carmelite community and you are in my prayers. Just this morning the vocation director reminded me that when one sister prays for me I have the prayers of the 143 others. Works that way here too.

Grace and Peace!!I

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

Thank you very much, you are in my prayers as well!

[PrayerSupporter]

Hello, Claire,

If you have not read it yet, another good book to read about the life of a Carmelite nun is My Beloved by Mother Catherine Thomas. It is available from used book stores/sellers, but is usually expensive. However, you can read it online for free at:
[url="http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?view=text;size=100;id=mdp.39015026764996;page=root;seq=7"]http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?view=text;size=100;id=mdp.39015026764996;page=root;seq=7[/url]

I will pray for you as you discern your vocation. May God bless.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='PrayerSupporter' timestamp='1319327200' post='2325341']
Hello, Claire,

If you have not read it yet, another good book to read about the life of a Carmelite nun is My Beloved by Mother Catherine Thomas. It is available from used book stores/sellers, but is usually expensive. However, you can read it online for free at:
[url="http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?view=text;size=100;id=mdp.39015026764996;page=root;seq=7"]http://babel.hathitr...page=root;seq=7[/url]

I will pray for you as you discern your vocation. May God bless.
[/quote]
Thank you, I will definitely look into that book! I love your profile picture, ah, my beloved St. Therese... Another thank you for the prayers, you are in mine as well!

[brandelynmarie]

[quote name='PrayerSupporter' timestamp='1319327200' post='2325341']
Hello, Claire,

If you have not read it yet, another good book to read about the life of a Carmelite nun is My Beloved by Mother Catherine Thomas. It is available from used book stores/sellers, but is usually expensive. However, you can read it online for free at:
[url="http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?view=text;size=100;id=mdp.39015026764996;page=root;seq=7"]http://babel.hathitr...page=root;seq=7[/url]

I will pray for you as you discern your vocation. May God bless.
[/quote]



Yes! Thank you!

[the171]

[quote name='InPersonaChriste' timestamp='1319289770' post='2325115']
I also encourage you to explore into communities, but do not overwhelm yourself. Sometimes we look at to many communities, and then we stop looking into our hearts.
[/quote]

THIS. At one point (just coming out of it, by the grace of God and the AMAZINGNESS of Pater Longus) I was so overwhelmed by ALLLL the communities I had seen, that I just kind of gave up. That giving up led me to Carmel. Now, with my knowledge of communities, I'm helping other girls find communities. Ha, how He works. . .

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1319346034' post='2325481']

THIS. At one point (just coming out of it, by the grace of God and the AMAZINGNESS of Pater Longus) I was so overwhelmed by ALLLL the communities I had seen, that I just kind of gave up. That giving up led me to Carmel. Now, with my knowledge of communities, I'm helping other girls find communities. Ha, how He works. . .
[/quote]
God works in mysterious ways! Thanks.

[Chiquitunga]

Quick note on live-ins I wanted to add here - pretty much all Carmels under the 1990 Constitutions do not allow them. You just enter as a postulant. Whereas the 1991 Constitutions allow up to a three month live-in. I see benefits either way.

However, I've heard from a couple sources that the [url="https://picasaweb.google.com/112954809546652959393/CarmelOfTheHolySpiritLittletonCO"]Littleton, CO Carmel[/url] (1990) actually does offer them .. but I could be totally wrong. It would be something to look into though

Edited October 24, 2011 by Chiquitunga

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1319418964' post='2325942']
Quick note on live-ins I wanted to add here - pretty much all Carmels under the 1990 Constitutions do not allow them. You just enter as a postulant. Whereas the 1991 Constitutions allow up to a three month live-in. I see benefits either way.

However, I've seen it written in ads and the like in a few places that the [url="https://picasaweb.google.com/112954809546652959393/CarmelOfTheHolySpiritLittletonCO"]Littleton, CO Carmel[/url] (1990) actually does offer them .. but I could be totally wrong. It would be something to look into though
[/quote]


That's interesting about Littleton. They didn't mention this to me when I spoke with them on the phone, but we didnt' actually get that far in our negotiations at the time since I was already seriously considering WV.

As for the live-in vs postulancy, I think there are benefits to a live-in from a psychological point of view because one doesn't feel like such a failure if they leave... after all, that is expected. And it does give one time to pray and think about the community before committing to postulancy. On the other hand, I spend three months as a live-in at Perth, and I think that was too long because one never feels a real part of the community as a live-in -- I felt more like a 'guest'. So when I went home to pray about it, I thought I should enter so that I could see what it felt like to really be a member of the community.

On the other hand, I did only one week live-in with Edmonton and actually felt that I needed time to go away and think because I was pretty sure they weren't for me, but they sort of 'absorbed' me without my actual consent when the Prioress came to me after a week to tell me they had voted to accept me (without me even applying to enter) and that I was to come upstairs to their habit room to get my postulant outfit!

I have mixed feelings now about both options and think one just has to respond to what God puts in front of them. Colwich has told me that I will spend a few days as a guest and then if all goes well, I will do a live-in for the rest of the time (a couple of weeks). It will be interesting to see how it goes. Then I come back to Oz and we all pray and think about a possible entrance.

[marigold]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1319419389' post='2325947']


That's interesting about Littleton. They didn't mention this to me when I spoke with them on the phone, but we didnt' actually get that far in our negotiations at the time since I was already seriously considering WV.

As for the live-in vs postulancy, I think there are benefits to a live-in from a psychological point of view because one doesn't feel like such a failure if they leave... after all, that is expected. And it does give one time to pray and think about the community before committing to postulancy. On the other hand, I spend three months as a live-in at Perth, and I think that was too long because one never feels a real part of the community as a live-in -- I felt more like a 'guest'. So when I went home to pray about it, I thought I should enter so that I could see what it felt like to really be a member of the community.

On the other hand, I did only one week live-in with Edmonton and actually felt that I needed time to go away and think because I was pretty sure they weren't for me, but they sort of 'absorbed' me without my actual consent when the Prioress came to me after a week to tell me they had voted to accept me (without me even applying to enter) and that I was to come upstairs to their habit room to get my postulant outfit!

I have mixed feelings now about both options and think one just has to respond to what God puts in front of them. Colwich has told me that I will spend a few days as a guest and then if all goes well, I will do a live-in for the rest of the time (a couple of weeks). It will be interesting to see how it goes. Then I come back to Oz and we all pray and think about a possible entrance.
[/quote]


Yikes! Automatic postulancy - I think I'd have freaked out. My live-in (after letter contact) was a month, which was either incredibly stupid or incredibly brave, considering I'd never even been to the States before. As we drove up to the door I thought, 'What the £$!% have I got myself into' but on reflection it was a good length of time, long enough to stop being just a guest, and to get a taste of the ups and downs of boredom and consolation, yet short enough to have an endpoint in sight.

Anyway, Claire, I think it's wonderful that you're considering this, and may God grant you discernment and perseverance!