Anti-catholics Know Catholic Church Teachings

[ironmonk]

[b]Proverbs 18:2[/b]
The fool takes no delight in understanding, but rather in displaying what he thinks.

"There are not even a hundred people in the US that hate the Roman Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they think is the Roman Catholic Church." - Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen


Some anti-Catholics actually believe that they know more than the Catholic Church does about what the Catholic Church teaches.

Why? I have no clue.

That would be like us trying to tell hindu's what their belief teaches and telling them that they are wrong. - What sense would that make? None... likewise can be said of the other.

What would make an anti-Catholic think that they know the Catholic Church teachings better than the Catholic Church?

This baffles me... I would really like to know.

The anti-Catholics are proven wrong of their knowledge of the Catholic teachings by just going to any of the following sites:

[url="http://www.Catholic.com"]http://www.Catholic.com[/url]

[url="http://www.USCCB.org"]http://www.USCCB.org[/url]

[url="http://www.Vatican.va"]http://www.Vatican.va[/url]

[url="http://www.Catholic-Pages.com"]http://www.Catholic-Pages.com[/url]

[url="http://www.ianpaisley.net"]http://www.ianpaisley.net[/url]

[url="http://www.EWTN.com"]http://www.EWTN.com[/url]

[url="http://www.Catholicity.com"]http://www.Catholicity.com[/url]


Why are they more concerned with what they think instead of what the Catholic Church really teaches?





God Bless,
ironmonk

[M.SIGGA]

I totally agree with you monk, but they think we aren't that different than the pagans (ex. hindus) and totally lost and if it's from an anti-Catholic Protestant POV, probably damned also.

[Ellenita]

Because if they understand what the Catholic church really teaches it would threaten their own belief systems......it's hard accepting that you've been living a lie or have been lied to by people you may love and respect. Many of us at PM have gone through that process and it's a painful journey isn't it? Some people just aren't willing to take that risk......or maybe just not willing at this moment in time....

You do know, Ironmonk, that you and others at Phatmass are having a major impact on people though don't you....getting people to think and question.....

[Quietfire]

[quote]What would make an anti-Catholic think that they know the Catholic Church teachings better than the Catholic Church?

This baffles me... I would really like to know.[/quote]


How often have I taken something out of the bible to back up something I wish it to be, believe it and then pushed it on someone else.

I have since learned that sola scripture not only opens a door that leads toward the devil, but bangs on it incessantly

Edited April 30, 2004 by Quietfire

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Ellenita' date='Apr 30 2004, 11:24 AM'] Because if they understand what the Catholic church really teaches it would threaten their own belief systems......it's hard accepting that you've been living a lie or have been lied to by people you may love and respect. Many of us at PM have gone through that process and it's a painful journey isn't it? Some people just aren't willing to take that risk......or maybe just not willing at this moment in time....

You do know, Ironmonk, that you and others at Phatmass are having a major impact on people though don't you....getting people to think and question..... [/quote]
Beautifully, accurately, and concisely said, Ellenita.

Some people suffer from "veritasaphobia" -- fear of the Truth!

[the lumberjack]

a little something you probly won't read and/or like....
[quote]Prayer for Vocations

On December 5th, the pope gave a message for the 41st World Day of Prayer for Vocations (prayer for more people to take up holy orders, etc). (Vatican City, Dec. 5th. VIS).

Seeing vocations as an act of ‘divine benevolence’, he said that the sick from around the world made a difference, when they ‘united prayer with sacrifice and suffering’. In other words, prayer is not enough and sacrifice and suffering somehow ‘help’ prayer to gain its objectives. Yet another Arminian idea.

The sick do this by ‘uniting their sorrows to the cross of Jesus in order to implore holy vocations’. They ‘also accompany me’ said the pope, ‘in the petrine ministry that God entrusted to me…’

He might be the pope but his interpretation of what is ministry and how a man is given one, is sadly mistaken. Peter’s ministry was Peter’s – it could not be passed on to anyone else. And there is no proof whatever that popes are the successors of Peter anyway. The assumptions are based on tentative myths, legends and very bad interpretation!

Another piece of bad theology is the pope’s comments, that at the ‘centre of all prayer initiatives is the Eucharist’. Where on earth did he get that one from? It certainly is not found in scripture!

The pope asked God, through the intercession of Mary, that the Church would never lack vocations. It is sad that the pope cannot remember that Rome invented the status of Mary just a short while ago, so her ‘help’ is illusory!

Mary has nothing to do with vocations or with any other plea by men to God. She is the dead mother of Jesus Christ – as human and as dead as any other human being at the time.

She has nothing to do with interceding on behalf of men, and has no role whatever in the work of Christ. Except in the invented theories of popes and Vaticans, of course!

Romano-Judicae!!

Modern Jews admit that they have no idea what happens after death, so many theories proliferate, as they do on most other major doctrinal issues. Yet, the Jews of Israel are combining with Rome to produce an overall global strategy for teaching scripture! (Vatican City, Dec. 5th).

Israel’s Delegation for Relations with the Catholic Church met with the Holy See’s Commission for Religious Relations with the Jews in Jerusalem on December 1st. They signed a joint declaration; “The Relevance of Central Teachings of the Holy Scriptures which we share for Contemporary Society and the Education of Future Generations”. Now that’s a mouthful!!

Previous meetings saw the Vatican condemning violence (forgive me as I smile) and denouncing anti-Semitism (we shall forget the anti-Semitism of the war-time pope who did not condemn Nazi atrocities against the Jews, and his demand of USA troops not to allow black soldiers into the Vatican city precincts!!).

Interestingly, both parties share a belief that God created everything of His own free will (even though both believe that salvation, of whatever type, comes by personal effort and works). The whole emphasis on ‘unity’ is based on the old chestnut of ‘peace’. Forget the doctrine, just wheel-on peace!

Watch these almost unreported talks, because they are the seeds of a much greater movement in Israel, where Rome will be asked to take part in running the country.

Italy Still in Bondage

When the pope officially met the new Italian ambassador to the Vatican, Giuseppe Balboni Acqua, the pope emphasised the part Italy has played in the presentation of Catholic values and religion. (VIS 040109 [490] January 9th 2004).

In 1984 Italy signed an Accord with the Vatican, stating that “the principles of Catholicism are part of the historical patrimony of the Italian people”.

The pope went on to say that because of this unique historical support of Rome, Italy would have a big part in forming the foundations of the new Europe, in which its religious roots will take precedence over political and economic ties. We can expect, then, that Italy will push a Catholic agenda throughout the EC.

So, Italy remains in bondage to Rome – as we also will be because of our participation in the vile EC movement. Mary’s dowry will soon get paid!

Wrong Again!

Bishop Paul Bootkoski of Metuchen says that a man who murdered one of his priests should not be put to death, “because God is the only one who has the right to take human life”. (totalcatholic.com 8th January) This flies in the face of scripture, in which God demands that we put to death a first-degree murderer!

In His word, God says that the nation that refuses to put murderers to death will share the guilt of the killer and will bear his shame, knowing God’s wrath on both. We are called to judge fellow men and put them to death, so this Catholic bishop has got it wrong, as does the whole Catholic Church.

Eh??

There is a call for the ‘laity’ to take more of a part in suggesting how the “church is run”. (totalcatholic.com).

Yet, the ‘Church’, in God’s word, is ‘the laity’!! All who are saved are the Church. Rome sees the ‘Church’ as being separate from the people, a hierarchical monolith run by priests and super-bishops. Rome, then, has no idea what it is talking about. Just remember that the Catholic Church is NOT Christian in any sense and should not be heeded for any reason in things religious or Christian.

Knights Get In On the Act, Too

We have seen that Jews and Rome are talking at a high level about union. But others get in on the act, too…

Just before Christmas (a time not celebrated by Jews) the Knights and Dames of the Holy Sepulchre met in Jerusalem. They bemoaned the fact that Israeli soldiers did not trust Palestinians, including Catholic ones, and so turned back their coaches used to visit shrines. Frankly, I don’t blame them! It is unfortunate for peaceful Palestinians, but it is understandable. So, the good members of the Order have vowed to work for peace.

This meddling group complains that Israel has set up strict security measures, making Palestinians use passes and curfew papers. What else do they expect when Palestinians are killing Jews and rejecting peace talks?

In a very similar way, the UK authorities treat all asylum seekers with great suspicion and so the very few who are genuine might suffer strict conditions. Again, this is to be expected, but Catholic leaders are saying that this is unacceptable. Well, they would – they also supported the IRA and the fight against British government in Ulster!

Needless to say the Jesuit Refugee Service leads in this opposition to UK government actions. Look into the future, readers – this is more to do with Catholic domination of all government facilities, than it is to do with refugees!

The Lewes Bonfire

Catholics are objecting to the enaction of the annual bonfire at Lewes, UK. Historically, it is accompanied by posters saying ‘No popery’ and the burning of a papal effigy!! What’s wrong with that?

Seriously though, the bonfire, like the bonfires of November 5th, are stark reminders of Catholic intrigue and what Rome can do if it sets its mind to undermine a whole country. It is right to remember this, and to blast out ‘No popery’.

Catholics, just like Muslims, call for ‘religious toleration’ whenever they are in the minority, but Catholic toleration for Christians evaporates as soon as Rome gains the upper hand! Then the iron fist of their hatred for Christian belief is slammed hard into anyone who objects to Catholic superstitions and false beliefs. (Note the similarity with Islam).

Angelus-Bangelus-Biggely-Boo!

What rubbish the pope comes out with! He appeared at his famed window (January 6th) to pray the Angelus, and followed it with sheer anti-scriptural nonsense. (VIS 040107 [360])

He said “with the maternal help of Our Lady, may every man, woman and child reach Christ…”. There is nothing in scripture that gives even a hint of an impression that Mary has anything to do with Christ apart from being the womb used by God to carry the infant. Mary brought Jesus up, knowing He was the Christ, but other than that, she was an ordinary woman with no special part in Christ’s ministry or in His salvation of men. I don’t really care if Catholics are offended by this, because they offend God and utter blasphemy by saying Mary has a part in our salvation.

If Mary had such a high task given by God, why did Jesus, her own son, rebuke her at the wedding feast? Nowhere in the New Testament do we find any reference to Mary as someone with a favoured place in the work of salvation. The cult of Mary is very much a Catholic invention that dishonours God and misleads those who should hear the authentic Gospel – not this garbage put out by Rome. Make no concessions to Mariolatry!

More Marian Nonsense

The next day, at a general audience in the Paul 6th Hall, the pope spoke on the theme of ‘The divine maternity of Mary’. (VIS 040107 [270])

He began with the words “Mary, Mother of God!” and added “Mary is…chosen by God to carry out the project of salvation…”.  .“At Christmas,” says the pope,“it is she who offers Jesus to mankind.” He then said that at the cross Jesus made a “gift of Mary” to every human being…entrusting “all believers to the love of Mary.” What utter bunkum!

The cult of Mary is repulsive because it glorifies Mary and demeans the work of Jesus Christ, giving a human being a part in salvation itself. Mary was privileged to carry the infant Jesus and to raise Him as her earthly son. But she played no other part. She has no place in heaven next to Christ and cannot intercede on our behalf.

Just before the pope prayed the Angelus (see the article above), the pope again praised Mary and said that the baby Jesus “gives the ability to become the children of God” to everyone who believes in His name. The word ‘ability’ is incompatible with that of ‘gift’. The pope is saying that we have this ability within us, so we can choose Jesus ourselves. Sadly, this is untrue and the pope is a liar and a deceiver.

Rome and the ‘New Order’

A huge amount of material is issued by the Vatican concerning Rome’s desire to see a ‘new world order’ come into being. On the 2nd January the pope said this himself.

“The need for a new international order is ever more necessary”, later linking this desire with the cult of Mary, and, therefore, with Rome itself.

Like Islam, Rome wants world domination in its own name, via Mary. It is working non-stop through a myriad of different organisations, religious groups and governmental individuals, and even whole Catholic countries.

These movements run deep, undermining all other activities of countries, and are the modern equivalent of the Guy Fawkes plot. Rome does very little actual bombing of its own now, but it certainly pulls the strings of many people throughout the world, for the downfall of legitimate governments and the crushing of true faith in Christ.[/quote]

and a link to a book I'm probly gonna get. [url="http://www.booksforcatholics.com/listings/l0095.html"]SUPERSTITIONS![/url]

at least look at the link...the book is written by a Catholic...isn't it?

God bless.

[Brother Adam]

ironmonk and lumberjack are two peas in a pod

[MrsFrozen]

I know, Ironmonk. I have been told I am wrong about what the Church teaches many times. I.e., "Yes, you DO worship Mary."

[Katholikos]

Lumberjack,

There is nothing that can be done for you and for others who prefer fiction to fact except pray for you. You have a plank in your eye that keeps you from seeing the truth.

You use your Bible (as you interpret it) as the only source of Truth. That's amusing since the Bible came to you from the heart and hands of the Catholic Church. The Church wrote the New Testament, selected its 27 writings from among approximately 200 other writings also produced by the Church in the early centuries of Christianity, canonized them and the Greek Septuagint OT she inherited from Jesus and the Apostles, and named the entire collection 'ta Biblia' -- the Bible. She was then about 400 years old.

"The Bible in Protestant hands is stolen property."
(convert Edward Yew)
[url="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/4296/conversion.html"]http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Aegean/4296/conversion.html[/url]

As a former Protestant myself, I pray for you and for all Protestants every day.

I once was blind, but now I see. I pray that one day you may see the truth also.

JMJ Likos

[Norseman82]

Uh....Lumberjack.....uhh.....what is the source of that piece?

[M.SIGGA]

[quote]Rome and the ‘New Order’

A huge amount of material is issued by the Vatican concerning Rome’s desire to see a ‘new world order’ come into being. On the 2nd January the pope said this himself.

“The need for a new international order is ever more necessary”, later linking this desire with the cult of Mary, and, therefore, with Rome itself.

Like Islam, Rome wants world domination in its own name, via Mary.[b] It is working non-stop through a myriad of different organisations, religious groups and governmental individuals, and even whole Catholic countries. [/b]
[b]These movements run deep, undermining all other activities of countries, and are the modern equivalent of the Guy Fawkes plot. Rome does very little actual bombing of its own now, but it certainly pulls the strings of many people throughout the world, for the downfall of legitimate governments and the crushing of true faith in Christ[/b].[/quote]
Let me guess... is it the Jesuits? I suppose the [b]BOLD[/b] is talking about the tens-of-thousands of shoe-less & malaria infected priests and nuns bathing lepers and caring for orphaned HIV positive children throughout the vast Third World. This is not only insulting, but totally judgemental, anti-Christian, and horrible. Personally I'm really disappointed

[the lumberjack]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 30 2004, 03:36 PM'] ironmonk and lumberjack are two peas in a pod [/quote]
sure, even though thats like the first time I've doc dumped...

unless you're talking about being at pretty much the same point at opposite ends of the "religious spectrum"

but we're actually probly not...thats the thing.

hahaha...

and Likos, I can see just fine. but thanks for the prayer.

God bless.

[NeWeStCoNvErT]

I feel you most of them dont step outside "anti catholic ring" so they visit websites that are anti catholic instead of going to the direct sorce of catholicism from the vatican website of numerous catholic websites they.Probaby from fear of the truth they dont want to let go what they think is true because then they would be wrong and it would hurt there pride. Im not going to say all anti catholic people do this but for the majorty. I dont know when they hear catholics worship the pope they probably get on the internet and look up catholics worship pope and it brings up a list of anti catholic wqebsites regaurding the issue.I dont knwo but when people say things about other religions i just dont take at it thats what the believe i will go to the website let see jehova witnesses and see what they really believe and why because all be explained there im just not going to take it by word of mouth because that person probably got form someone else you heard the same thing from word of mouth and so on and so on. But if there really worried about what catholics really believe there are many catholic churches with priest they can call up if there that concerned about what we believe. But all we can do is pray and when someone like this approaches us give them whjat really believe and back it up with further proof if you have to lot of the time it only takes logic to prove one wrong But anyways the best thing like i said is to pray for these people and maybe one day there anti catholics ways will change ( maybe even convert )

pax,
Joyce

[PedroX]

I'm guessing the source for the document was Ian Paisley, as there are clear signs it originated in the UK.

Lumberjack,

I checked the link, and I do not think that the book will debunk Catholicism. Most (if not all) of the books listed for sale seem very orthodox. Best wishes...


peace...

[Katholikos]

[color=blue]Quote from Lumberjack:

"Interestingly, both parties [Jews and Catholics] share a belief that God created everything of His own free will (even though both believe that salvation, of whatever type, comes by personal effort and works)."[/color]

The Catholic Church condemned works salvation as a heresy as early as the Second Council of Orange in 529, and again at the Council of Trent, 1545-63.

[b]From the Council of Trent: ON JUSTIFICATION
CANON I.-If any one saith that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.[/b]

This same false charge has been made over and over and over and over against the Catholic Church for centuries. It is pure bull-oney.

I'm sure you, Lumberjack, as a Christian, would not want to violate the Commandments by bearing false witness against your Catholic neighbors. Spreading false accusations against the Church founded by Christ for the salvation of the world is bearing false witness. So don't believe everything you read and please, check it out before you repeat it.

There's also this: "You shall not utter a false report. You shall not join hands with a wicked man, to be a malicious witness." Exodus 23:1. Witness only to the truth.

Peace be to you and to all.

Ave Cor Mariae, Likos