How Is Mary Related To My Salvation?

[Livin_the_MASS]

Oh yeah,

He does use weak sinful people to do His works, but the Mother of God is different, think about it.

[the lumberjack]

soft spot?

he just said that God uses perfect vessels...when throughout history, God has used weak, imperfect vessels to accomplish His perfect will.

I await for your answer, lanky.

God bless.

[HomeTeamFamily]

thx jason for affirming my arguement


and LJ, you still didnt spell it right in the first place!

[the lumberjack]

I know I didn't lank...and don't correct me if you don't know how to spell it either!

and as for the argument... believe what you wish to believe... but by your own words you say God is inconsistent with the way He does things...when He is perfectly consistant and constant with the way He carries out His will...

but hey, like I said...believe what you will.

God bless.

[theculturewarrior]

I apologize if I missed something, but I don't think the following questions have been answered. Help me understand your POV.

[quote]Mary is not only the Mother of God, but she is our mother too. Do you say to your mother, "thanks for giving birth to me, but now that I'm here, well, that's as far as the relationship is going to go." I really doubt it, because you and I both know, that would be "qorban."

Suppose I asked my mother to pray for a non Christian. Would that be helpful for his salvation? Do you suppose my mother would cease praying in heaven? Do you suppose God ignores his own mother's prayers for the salvation of the world, or for your own personal salvation? [/quote]

[Dave]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='May 6 2004, 05:19 PM'] he just said that God uses perfect vessels...when throughout history, God has used weak, imperfect vessels to accomplish His perfect will.

[/quote]
Well in the Old Testament, the Ark of the Covenant had to be made of the FINEST material. Mary is the new Ark of the Covenant, as she carried Jesus in her womb. So isn't it only right that she be the holiest woman there is? No inconsistency there.

[HomeTeamFamily]

[quote]and as for the argument... believe what you wish to believe... but by your own words you say God is inconsistent with the way He does things...when He is perfectly consistant and constant with the way He carries out His will...[/quote]

this coming from the same guy who admitted that God could do whatever He wanted....like if Mary said no He could have just chosen someone else......if He had that kind of power, why is it so hard to believe that He concieved the vessel for the Son of Man without sin??

[WildCatRupe]

first off, greetings! my first post. the problem with coming into a convo like this is that there are SO many things i want to say. I'll just pick two, but expect at least one more post in the very near future.


first off...concerning the idea that "God is perfectly consistent and constant with the way He carries out His will" ....maybe its just me, but i know God works His will in my life in many different ways, even just over the course of a week. One day maybe He will "whack me upside the head with a Holy 2 X 4," as some of my friends like to say (lol, lanky). Whether thats getting especially profound advice from a friend, or being guided by the Holy Spirit to a certain passage in Sacred Scripture, to a daily mass homily that might as well have been written for me. and then other times, He will be very gentle, sweetly persuasive, softly nudging me in the direction He wills.


Second. I invite everyone to examine the most common Marian prayer we as Catholics pray. Here's the text, for those who don't know it:

Hail, Mary, full of grace
the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of the womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, Mother of God,
pray for us sinners now,
and at the hour of our death. Amen.

That is sort of the most basic form of our relationship with the Blessed Virgin. The first three lines can be found in Scripture (at the Annunciation, though I don't remember precisely which Gospel). The fourth line...well, duh. Line 5 is merely a title, and lines 6 & 7 are a basic request for intercession. Those two aren't really any different than if you asked your biological mother, or anyone else, to pray for you. The only real difference (laying aside the controversy on her potential sinfulness during her life, or lack thereof) is that she is in heaven already, and hence the only form of communication with her is prayer.


The next post coming, within the next few days, addresses a topic from earlier in the string. Basically, the way in which our Blessed Mother fits into the "chain of command" as far as prayer goes. I contend that all prayer to God goes through Jesus (as He teaches us in Scripture), but that in order to get TO Jesus, all prayer goes through Mary first. Again, that idea is something that will be discussed, explained and supported in a later post. The one point I do want to make is that, simply because you are praying to Jesus, or are not aware of the Blessed Virgin's part in the whole matter, doesn't mean its not there. Its something that happens, just like if I address a prayer to the Father, it goes to Him through Jesus, whether I intend that, or address it as such, or not. Just something to think about for a day or two while i get my sources arranged.

Sorry this is so long. It wasn't really meant to be as such. My apologies, and my thanks for your taking the time to read the whole thing.

Timmy

[cmotherofpirl]

Welcome to Phatmass. Excellent first post.

There is is check-in thread on open mic if you want to introduce yourself.

[HomeTeamFamily]

TIMMY!!!!! WELCOME TO THE PHAM!!!!!

hes a friend of mine from way back in our early childhood......

anyway, yea great post

[phishphan47]

In Genesis, after the fall, god issues this proclamation to that Ancient Serpent:
[quote]I will put emnity between you and the [i]woman[/i], and between [i]her seed[/i] and yours[/quote]
It's quite interesting that, even at the beginning of our salvation, God was propheseying about Mary. She was ALWAYS an intricate part of his plan.

[Crusader_4]

Mary is a part of the slavation history who are we to deny it...its clear...and we must recognize it as such. We can say what if not...wat if it was another...But the Clear fact was Mary WAS who God PICKED no other women. To say he could of picked another women..says who are we to question God's perfect plan of salvation? He picked Mary to be the Ark the holder of the New Convenant. No other single women in all of history and he could of....we must then ask ourselves why?

[jasJis]

I think we lost focus from earlier posts.

Mary DID NOT HAVE TO BE PERFECT to be Jesus' mother.

God graced Mary with abundant grace that saved her from sin to Honor His Son, Jesus!

The point is not to just see Mary's honor, but to see why Mary was honored >>> JESUS, the Son of God, true Man AND true God!

God did not to bring our attention to Mary alone and stop there. When we bring our attention to Mary, we are led to the reality of Jesus, Son of God, being also fully human, becoming like you and me, because He CHOSE to, out of love.

As John the Baptist's mom correctly noted: "Who am I that the Mother of My Lord should come to me?"

[the lumberjack]

and people, even in the time of Jesus, sought to give Mary honor and make her something more than a blessed vessel of the Lord's will.

Luke 11:27-28

Christ's own words:

27As Jesus was saying these things, a woman in the crowd called out, "Blessed is the mother who gave you birth and nursed you."
28He replied, [color=red]"Blessed [b]rather[/b] are those who hear the word of God and obey it."[/color]

so...yeah.

I call her blessed, and she was good in doing the Lord's will...but she was in no means perfect, without sin, or without children.

blessed is Mary, yes...but not more blessed than any of the other great people of God...Mary was not crucified for our sins, and has no part in our redemption, which lies SOLELY in Christ.

NO ONE ELSE.

[Aloysius]

except in the greek the "rather" doesn't connotate "instead" but more of an "also"

Christ responds to that blessing of His mother with a double blessing of His mother and a blessing for anyone who hears God's word and follows it. From the Greek one can more accurately see that saying "blessed also are those who hear the word of God and obey it" (although, rather is not completely useless, also would have been a different greek word. but rather is more of a statement that affirms the previous statement and then doubles it up to the next statement) so He says His mother is blessed, He says all who obey the word of God and obey it (like His mother did duh) are blessed. So Mary fits into both categories of blessings He's dishing out here, and the average Christian fits into the next one. What a beautiful family He's settin up for us here