How Is Mary Related To My Salvation?

[narnia]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Apr 30 2004, 01:18 PM'] You should look at all the places that Scripture states what we need to do for salvation. You need to do more than believe. Faith without works is dead.






St. Matt 16:24
19 Then Jesus said to his disciples, "Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, 20 take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. 21
26 What profit would there be for one to gain the whole world and forfeit his life? Or what can one give in exchange for his life?
27 22 For the Son of Man will come with his angels in his Father's glory, and then he will repay everyone according to his conduct.
Works are very important.



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St. Matt 25:31
14 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne,
32 and all the nations 15 will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'
37 Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'
40 And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41 17 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.'
44 18 Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?'
45 He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.'
46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."
You must do good works.


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St. Luke 12:47

That servant who knew his master's will but did not make preparations nor act in accord with his will shall be beaten severely;
48 and the servant who was ignorant of his master's will but acted in a way deserving of a severe beating shall be beaten only lightly. Much will be required of the person entrusted with much, and still more will be demanded of the person entrusted with more.
If you know the will of the Father, and do not do it, you will be punished.



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2 Corin 11:15
So it is not strange that his ministers also masquerade as ministers of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

We will be judged by our deeds, our works. Preachers who say that all you need is faith and it doesn't matter what sins you do to get to heaven, are lying to you. The want your money.



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St. Matt 10:22
You will be hated by all because of my name, but whoever endures to the end 10 will be saved.

No one will be saved until the end. We must endure to the end, meaning we must do good works and have faith.



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St. Matt 24:13
But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

We are not saved until the end.



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St. Matt 7:1
1 2 "Stop judging, that you may not be judged.
2 For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you.
3 Why do you notice the splinter in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye?

We will be judged on how we judge others.



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St. John 3:19
9 And this is the verdict, that the light came into the world, but people preferred darkness to light, because their works were evil.
20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come toward the light, so that his works might not be exposed.
21 But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as done in God.

Works are important.



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James 2:14
6 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister has nothing to wear and has no food for the day,
16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, keep warm, and eat well," but you do not give them the necessities of the body, what good is it?
17 So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 Indeed someone might say, "You have faith and I have works." Demonstrate your faith to me without works, and I will demonstrate my faith to you from my works.
19 You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.
20 Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works.
23 Thus the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called "the friend of God."
24 See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25 And in the same way, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she welcomed the messengers and sent them out by a different route?
26 For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead.

This makes if very clear that faith without works is worthless.



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Eph 2:2
in which you once lived following the age of this world, 4 following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the disobedient.
3 All of us once lived among them in the desires of our flesh, following the wishes of the flesh and the impulses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like the rest.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love he had for us,
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ 5 (by grace you have been saved),
6 raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus,
7 that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not from you; it is the gift of God;
9 it is not from works, so no one may boast.
10 For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.

So many people just look at verses 7, 8, & 9.... and take it out of context. When you look at 2-6 AND 10, it puts it into it's proper context.

In verses 2-6, it condemns the bad works.

In verse 9, the focus is so that 'none may boast', as the Pharisees did in the times before Christ.

In verse 10, it tells us the we need to live in "good works".



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God Bless, Love in Christ & the Blessed Ever Virgin Mary
iron monk [/quote]
^------ This is soOoo out of context.

haha. Anyway to clarify.. I DO NOT believe in Once Saved Always Saved.

[narnia]

[quote name='Jason' date='Apr 30 2004, 03:16 PM'] Dr. Scott Hahn Hail Holy Queen

[b]"God's Plan Of Salvation Immaculately Conceived"[/b]

"The immaculate conception is the doctrine that God preserved Mary free from all stain of orginal sin. From the first moment of her conception in the womb of her mother, then, she lived in a state of sanctifying grace won for her by the merits of her son, Jesus. Thus the angel's greeting to Mary, "Hail, full of grace," was uttered years before Jesus won grace for mankind. Yet Mary was, even then, "full of grace."

"Cardinal John Henry Newman taught that the immaculate conception was an important corollary to Mary's role as the New Eve. He asked: "If Eve was raised above human nature by that indwelling moral gift which we call grace, is it rash to say that Mary had even a greater grace?... And if Eve had this supernatural inward gift given her from the first moment of her personal existence, is it possible to deny that Mary too had this gift from the very first moment of her personal existence?"

Newman also found it fitting for Christ to be born of a sinless mother.....

[i]" Mary was no mere instrument in God's dispensation. The Word of God.....did not merely pass through her, as He may pass through us in Holy Communion. It was no heavenly body which the Eternal Son assumed.....No, He imbibed, He sucked up her blood and her substance into His Divine Person. He became man from her, and recieved her lineaments and her features as the appearance and character under which He should manifest Himself to the world. He was known, doubtless, by His likeness to her, to be her Son... Was it not fitting....that the Eternal Father should prepare her for this ministration by some preeminent sanctification?"[/i]

God Bless
Jason [/quote]
Jason: I got to admit, your Scott Hahn quote is beautiful..

But... Good one Bro Adam. Why would I NOT want devotion to Mary...?

Because: Devotion to Jesus is enough. (FULL STOP)

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

...

Edited May 1, 2004 by Mrs. Bro. Adam

[Crusader_4]

Yes thats true...But Jesus has given us other things and other ways to connect with him. Why would someone go camping to get in touch with God when praryer is only nesscairy? Why hang out with a great pastor when you can go 2 God directly. People bring us to God whether they are alive or dead. And Mary who is up high there with God can bring us closer to. Mary who was the closest human to Jesus on Earth can bring us humans closer to Jesus...now.

[bookofjohn]

I posted this on my blog. Hope that this is helpful:

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Monday, April 05, 2004

My Claimed Promise

It is sad that Romans 16:20 ("The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet") is a promise never claimed by most of our Protestant brothers and sisters, and I say this with all due respect to all of our Protestant brothers and sisters from various denominations. "Why is that so?" you ask

Well, in order for one to claim Romans 16:20, one must recognize the Blessed Virgin as his/her spiritual mother. In Genesis 3:15, God says; "...And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel." It is a well known fact that the "he" in Genesis 3:15 refers to Jesus, and if that is so, what can we say about the "woman" mentioned? Yup, it is refering to the Blessed Virgin.

Because we are IN Christ we are able to have this priviledge to crush satan's head (or in other words "defeat satan" ) BUT there is a catch, in order to claim this promise we have to recognize ourselves as the spiritual offsprings of the Blessed Virgin. If we don't? We fail to claim this promise.

God's plan for our salvation has been eternally in His mind and we can see as early as in the book of Genesis, God has already planned to save us through His Son Jesus Christ, who is to be born of the Virgin Mary and become man, to suffer and die in order to atone for the sin of the world. Now all of that is fulfilled and Jesus is risen, we have to do our part and recognize Jesus as our Lord & Savior to attain salvation. With Mary the mother of our Lord (and our mother as well), let us claim this promise in Romans 16:20 and defeat satan as one body in Christ. Amen.

Peace <><

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[Brother Adam]

[quote name='narnia' date='Apr 30 2004, 11:45 PM'] Jason: I got to admit, your Scott Hahn quote is beautiful..

But... Good one Bro Adam. Why would I NOT want devotion to Mary...?

Because: Devotion to Jesus is enough. (FULL STOP) [/quote]
So your not planning on being devoted to your children?

You have no care or respect for your physical family here on earth?

Ashley?

[Brother Adam]

I'm sorry but "I'm going to do as little as possible" is a lousy excuse for anything.

[Livin_the_MASS]

You know I've noticed over the years, that our Protestant brothers and sisters have the most problem with Our Lady (Our Mother) and with Jesus in the Holy Eucharist Truly Present.

Now I have been told by alot of people that they don't like something typed out or c / p of something already written. But to me that's awesome that is one strong point of the Catholic Faith someone before me with more knowledge has put it in beautiful words and explained it very well.

The thing with the Catholic Church that is beautiful, [u]is it's documents[/u] that provide information to guide the soul.

I almost get the vibe of our Protestant brothers and sisters as if to say it is human doctrine don't read it. But if you sit and think about it they all have doctrines of there own they follow.

That is why alot of them split from each other because one lays down the law and the other doesn't like it and goes and starts another church or goes to one already existing.

The Catholic Church is firm in it's moral stance. It doesn't move, gay marriage is a sin, birth control is a sin, sex outside of marriage is a sin, I mean Christ's Church lays down the law.

A few people have said to me "why do you always go back to the Holy Eucharist?"
Well because Christian life without Christ is impossible to carry out by yourself, "Apart from me you can do nothing."; "Remain in Me, as I remain in you. Just as a branch cannnot bear fruit on its own unless it remains on the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in me."; "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him." We need Jesus in the Holy Eucharist to live out our Catholic Christian life.

You cannot take one Scripture verse and hang on it, you have to read Sacred Scripture as a whole.

[quote][b]Scott Hahn "Scripture Matters"[/b]

"What the soul is to the body, the spiritual sense is to the literal. You can distinguish the two; but if you try to seperate them, death follows. God "has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant---not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2 Cor. 3:6, NIV). As Saint Augustine taught, the literal sense without the spiritual is not only dead, but deadly."[/quote]

Even me with Mary, as a Catholic, born and raised I had trouble understanding too. But now that I understand (by God's good grace) Her role as Mother, as co-redeemer, I know I have a spiritual Mother who loves us very much and is constantly praying for the salvation of our souls. Everyone has a free will. You use it the way you want, but even if you chose to reject it there is still hope, "for with God all things are possible."

You have to open your heart, be humble, I know I don't know it all, I put myself in the care of God, without Him I'm nothing! You have to have an open heart, Notice even in The Holy Eucharist, Christ, God, does not force Himself on us, we walk up to Him, and recieve Him, He does not force our mouth open to recieve Him!

God loves us so much, He gives us a choice. He loves us so much that He respects it, if we wish to keep it. He never gives up on us, but He respects us and knocks at the door of our hearts waiting and hoping for us to open it and Let Him In!

In my prayers
God Bless
Jason

[the lumberjack]

"anybody that would not leave mother and father for me is not worthy of me..."

right?

and about Mary...if she would've said no, another woman would've been chosen by God...its really not that hard for Him...unlike what has been said before.

even with her not being born with sin...God can do whatever He wants, right?

He ALONE is God, right?

God bless.

Christ first and only.

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote name='the lumberjack' date='May 1 2004, 01:37 AM'] "anybody that would not leave mother and father for me is not worthy of me..."

right?

and about Mary...if she would've said no, another woman would've been chosen by God...its really not that hard for Him...unlike what has been said before.

even with her not being born with sin...God can do whatever He wants, right?

He ALONE is God, right?

God bless.

Christ first and only. [/quote]
You answer yourself explain your theory.

God Bless
Jason

[Livin_the_MASS]

[quote]"anybody that would not leave mother and father for me is not worthy of me..."[/quote]

By the way your verse is way out of it's context!

[Livin_the_MASS]

[Livin_the_MASS]

I'm going to bed LJ, but it is clear you looked over on this thread CLEAR information by: Ironmonk, Bro Adam, Likos, bookofjohn, Crusader_4, IcePrincessKRS, lifeteener, dUSt, and me.

Yet you missed everyone of the posts? Did they not help, should we be more clear? Let me know cause I want to help?

In my prayers
Jason

[IcePrincessKRS]

I'm going to bed, too... 2 am and baby just woke up, must put her back to sleep...

But remember, PLAY NICE Y'ALL! I don't want to come back and have to lay the smack down.

[the lumberjack]

Jason, if my "theory" needs explanation, I'm pretty much done here...for good.

really.

if you don't get that God could have full well chosen someone else to do HIS will...then you really need to go seminary...or something.

and I was posting what Christ said to brother Adam.

and IcePrincess...I'll play nice...promise.