Dave Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 So in other words, because Mary gave birth to Jesus, we're now supposed to ignore her? Jesus never ignored His mother, and neither should we. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 the question is NOT: "Should we ignore Mary?" RATHER it's "How's Mary related to OUR Salvation?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 I was just pointing out how your logic did not hold up. This is from the website that Jason provided. I'm not sure you read the information, but I think it kind of basically sums this up. [quote]The Church Fathers contrast Mary's obedience at the Annunciation with Eve's disobedience. Mary by Her obedience became the cause of the Salvation, while Eve by her disobedience became the cause of death. St. Irenaeus teaches "As she (Eve) who had Adam as her husband, but was nevertheless a virgin, was disobedient, and thereby became the cause of death to herself and to the whole of mankind, so also Mary, who has a pre-ordained husband, and was still a virgin, by Her obedience became a cause of Her own salvation and the salvation of the whole human race" (Adv. Haer. III 22, 4; cf. V 19, 1). St. Jerome says "By a woman the whole world was saved" (cf. Tertullian, De carne Christi 17).[/quote] (btw, the Church Fathers were early Christian writers. Irenaeus wrote around 150. St. Jerome was in the 300s (I'm not sure on him...)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 hey Narnia i recommed goin to get Scott Hahns book Hail Holy Queen it really shows how Mary is the Eve of the new convenent. Eve was the mother of the original convenent with God and she fell and then Eve is the mother of the new convenent in Jesus and since she never sinned and is pure she holds the convent strongly... its a wonderful book by a convert Catholic so it may be a good read if your interested in Marys role God Bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 To make it simpler: "Can we enter heaven without the devotion to Mary?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 [quote name='narnia' date='Apr 30 2004, 01:13 PM']hehe. Yeah, i can understand why Catholics call Mary their mother but what I REALLY want to know is... What's Mary got to do with my Salvation?? I mean yeah, she gave birth to Jesus... but that's IT. I now have Jesus. What's her role for our Salvation? Would like hear from Bro. Adam though [/quote] [quote]Mary gave birth to your Salvation.[/quote] Jake put it very well, I think! He came to us through Her and wants us to go through Her to Him. Do you know anything about the Holy Rosary? It is meditating on the life of Christ with the heart of Mary. From the Holy Cross on Calvery Jesus when He gave Mary to John He gave Her to all of us as a Mother The human family is an image of The Holy Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit-- which is the love between the Father and the Son. When Mary was told she was going to be with child the Holy Spirit overshadowed Her. Marys assumption completes the family, we have a Mother to go too, by the power of the Holy Spirit whom (She is the spouse of) to Jesus Christ (Her Son) whom He goes to the Father whom She is (Daughter of.) Her assumption that Our Lord shared His glory with Her He honored His Mother perfectly by doing this (Honor thy father and mother). We are to imitate Him in everything if He honored His Mother we are expected to the same. Mary always takes us to Jesus, She takes us to God! God Bless Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 [quote name='narnia' date='Apr 30 2004, 02:26 PM'] To make it simpler: "Can we enter heaven without the devotion to Mary?" [/quote] It's not something that's absolutely necessary, but considering that she leads us to Jesus, I wouldn't recommend not having a devotion to Mary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p0lar_bear Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 [quote name='narnia' date='Apr 30 2004, 02:26 PM'] To make it simpler: "Can we enter heaven without the devotion to Mary?" [/quote] I suppose that might depend on what you mean by "devotion to Mary." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 (edited) Exactly what I was going to say Dave. Its not absolutely necessary but it sure helps! I like to think that just like our mom's raised us and watched out for us, devotion to Mary helps "raise" us spiritually. Edited April 30, 2004 by IcePrincessKRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narnia Posted April 30, 2004 Author Share Posted April 30, 2004 Why THROUGH Mary? In Philippians 4:13 it says..."I can do ALL things THROUGH Christ which strengtheneth me." So with Christ, ALL things is possible. Then now.. what's left for Mary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 please read the book that is Hail Holy Queen by Scott Hahn i think it can really open your eyes and he uses scripture to prove it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 Hold on I'll get Sacred Scripture to back this up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philippe Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 he uses text from revelations as well to parallel Mary and the new ark of the convenent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 While Jason is getting the Scripture.... We go to Christ through Mary, she takes our requests and prayers and presents them to Jesus perfectly. Its not through Mary alone, without God she would have nothing to give us, HE gives her the ability to help us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dUSt Posted April 30, 2004 Share Posted April 30, 2004 narnia, Simply put, Mary brings us closer to Jesus, who is our salvation. Must we have a devotion to Mary to be saved? No. Would we be saved if Mary didn't accept her role to bring Jesus into this world? Logically, the answer is no, because Jesus would not have been born. So, once you deny that Mary plays a role in our salvation, you are denying the plan Jesus Christ designed for us--and in my opinion, this does nothing to deepen your relationship with Him. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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