So Then I Got To Thinking......

[Quietfire]

Has anyone ever just started wandering around the internet?
Checking on this site, and that?
Moving from one forum to another?
I have.

Although I admit, I havent been online as long as most (January '04)
It seems though, that there are literally TONS of forums where the norm is too see who can bash the Catholic Church the best.

There are comments from accusing the church of interpreting scripture to suit her own needs and desires, putting herself on a pedistal, prancing around in the pretty robes and vestments of gold, sitting in a building with icons and falling down to worship them. Using symbols related to the worship of Baal in their dress and architechture. Adopting pagen customs or holidays to lead those away from Christ. Building its 'Temple' to glorify its self. Saying the Vatican is the Harlot. That she(Church) breeds pedophilers, protecting them. And so many other accusations.

So before I ever found Phatmass, I got to thinking....does someone smell smoke.

Yes the Church defends herself against these attacks.
But you hear more about the attacks, then the Church answer or defense.

What are these persons, faiths, beliefs trying to hide?

What skeletons do they protect?

The Church protects not just the Church, but all she stands for. God and Scripture.
Why does it seem the accusers spend more time in attack mode?.. while the church spends her time tending HIS sheep.

Does it seem a coincidence, that the first Christians went through much of the same indignation, insults and accusations....that the Church experiences today?

Most others claim they are the remnant, the chosen few, and then start attacking the 'Queen of Lies' as they like to call the Church, to either justify themselves or to back up thier beliefs.

So [i]if[/i] in fact, there is only a few who will heed the warning set forth within the bible about the deceivers...then wouldnt that tend to lead that the accusers themselves are the deceivers?

For there are many........... yet the Church is one.

These are the things I think about.
Any comments?

Edited April 30, 2004 by Quietfire

[Quietfire]

BUMP

[IcePrincessKRS]

I honestly don't know if I can add anything or even really answer your questions.... those are some interesting things to think about...

[Quietfire]

Yeh, it definitely got me thinking. Started last year before I ever got a computer. Then I went on and it was seven fold what I saw elsewhere.

Went to a bookstore yesterday, asked for stuff on Scott Hahn, they had nothing. But they had tons of protestant stuff
Then I heard a clerk telling a customer that the KJV is the bible of choice of Catholics. Gee, I hope I wasnt too harsh correcting her.

[Paladin D]

Barnes & Noble sell some good Catholic books in their Religion>Christianity section. Thats where I buy mine (other than the net). I got [b]Will Catholics Be Left Behind?[/b] by Carl E. Olson from that store.

[ironmonk]

Quietfire,

Thank you.

Have you ever noticed the bullies in schools? They attack someone verbally to get the attention off of themselves on onto the other person, even if it's with lies. They do have things to hide. If the bullies had the truth, why would they bother with the other kid?

I think you'll find much wisdom in St. Austine's writings... He was Bishop of Hippo, and was involved in putting together the New Testament.... Here is a writing from him, about the very topic you cover here....


City of God -Book 18
CHAPTER 51 -- [b]That the Catholic Faith may be confirmed even by the dissensions of the heretics.[/b]
But the devil, seeing the temples of the demons deserted, and the human race running to the name of the liberating Mediator, has moved the heretics under the Christian name to resist the Christian doctrine, as if they could be kept in the city of God indifferently without any correction, just as the city of confusion indifferently held the philosophers who were of diverse and adverse opinions. Those, therefore, in the Church of Christ who savor anything morbid and depraved, and, on being corrected that they may savor what is wholesome and right, contumaciously resist, and will not amend their pestiferous and deadly dogmas, but persist in defending them, become heretics, and, going without, are to be reckoned as enemies who serve for her discipline. For even thus they profit by their wickedness those true catholic members of Christ, since God makes a good use even of the wicked, and all things work together for good to them that love Him. For all the enemies of the Church, whatever error blinds or malice depraves them, exercise her patience if they receive the power to afflict her corporally; and if they only oppose her by wicked thought, they exercise her wisdom: but at the same time, if these enemies are loved, they exercise her benevolence, or even her beneficence, whether she deals with them by persuasive doctrine or by terrible discipline. And thus the devil, the prince of the impious city, when he stirs up his own vessels against the city of God that sojourns in this world, is permitted to do her no harm. For without doubt the divine providence procures for her both consolation through prosperity, that she may not be broken by adversity, and trial through adversity, that she may not be corrupted by prosperity; and thus each is tempered by the other, as we recognize in the Psalms that voice which arises from no other cause, "According to the multitude of my griefs in my heart, Thy consolations have delighted my soul." Hence also is that saying of the apostle, "Rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation."

For it is not to be thought that what the same teacher says can at any time fail, "Whoever will live piously in Christ shall suffer persecution." Because even when those who are without do not rage, and thus there seems to be, and really is, tranquillity, which brings very much consolation, especially to the weak, yet there are not wanting, yea, there are many within who by their abandoned manners torment the hearts of those who live piously, since by them the Christian and catholic name is blasphemed; and the dearer that name is to those who will live piously in Christ, the more do they grieve that through the wicked, who have a place within, it comes to be less loved than pious minds desire. The heretics themselves also, since they are thought to have the Christian name and sacraments, Scriptures, and profession, cause great grief in the hearts of the pious, both because many who wish to be Christians are compelled by their dissensions to hesitate, and many evil-speakers also find in them matter for blaspheming the Christian name, because they too are at any rate called Christians. By these and similar depraved manners and errors of men, those who will live piously in Christ suffer persecution, even when no one molests or vexes their body; for they suffer this persecution, not in their bodies, but in their hearts. Whence is that word, "According to the multitude of my griefs in my heart;" for he does not say, in my body. Yet, on the other hand, none of them can perish, because the immutable divine promises are thought of. And because the apostle says, "The Lord knoweth them that are His; for whom He did foreknow, He also predestinated [to be] conformed to the image of His Son," none of them can perish; therefore it follows in that psalm, "Thy consolations have delighted my soul." But that grief which arises in the hearts of the pious, who are persecuted by the manners of bad or false Christians, is profitable to the sufferers, because it proceeds from the charity in which they do not wish them either to perish or to hinder the salvation of others. Finally, great consolations grow out of their chastisement, which imbue the souls of the pious with a fecundity as great as the pains with which they were troubled concerning their own perdition. Thus in this world, in these evil days, not only from the time of the bodily presence of Christ and His apostles, but even from that of Abel, whom first his wicked brother slew because he was righteous, and thenceforth even to the end of this world, the Church has gone forward on pilgrimage amid the persecutions of the world and the consolations of God.






God Bless, Love in Christ & Mary,
ironmonk

[Quietfire]

Thank You Ironmonk.

[Lil Red]

good thoughts, quietfire!

[Crusader_4]

Must make a comment here i have never really thought of that and i try not to think of the Church as the Be all end all (even if it is) because i have problems with pride. I do believe though that you have brought up some points though that are valid. One thing for the record and you havent done it hear and i dunno what the other members think but i really dont like it when we bash and break down our seperated brothers and sisters....becuz we become like them in a sense.

[Quietfire]

Hi Crusader 4,

Actually, by separated brothers and sisters, I can only speculate that you are talking about me? Since I was a baptised Catholic [i]only[/i].

It was a statement made by someone outside the Church....me.
It was made by me after hearing, seeing, and participating in evil thrown towards the Catholic Church.

Although I will openly admit that I have never heard slander aimed at the Catholic Church from ANY of the denominations I attended, as far as the pastors and such. I do admit to hearing unsettling things from its members, but after reading many postings here I see a visible difference.

Here, those like Lumberjack and Hallizoe are allowed and encouraged to voice their opinions and perspectives. Debates are based on mutual respect for ones opponent and all must observe charity.

In the words of Martha Stewart..."its a good thing"

It is those, who are the 'lost' of Christianity, those who claim that they are not Christian, or wish to "not be called christian", because they do not wish to be associated with a faith so vile, that I am speaking of.

I doubt very seriously that someone of Lumberjacks caliber would claim that he reviles being called christian because it would 'lump' him in with Catholics. No, Lumber is humbled to be a christian and views Catholics as christians also.

I hope that helps, it was never my intention to harm anyone. I see so many lost people, it does truly hurt.

Edited May 1, 2004 by Quietfire

[Crusader_4]

No offence taken it was rather an issue of just making sure we dont fall into a trap of pride. Since we have soo much it is easy to do...and our attitude towards otherse. I was not accusing anyone here of it...it was just a personal thing that i have trouble with in my own personal life. And i completely agree when you say:

"It is those, who are the 'lost' of Christianity, those who claim that they are not Christian, or wish to "not be called christian", because they do not wish to be associated with a faith so vile, that I am speaking of."

In Christs Blood,

Will

[phatcatholic]

[quote name='Quietfire' date='Apr 30 2004, 10:29 PM'] Actually, by separated brothers and sisters, I can only speculate that you are talking about me? Since I was a baptised Catholic [i]only[/i].

It was a statement made by someone outside the Church....me. [/quote]
i'm somewhat confused by this statement. does that mean that you are not a catholic? were u baptized catholic and then u fell away? if so, are you coming back?

[Quietfire]

baptised catholic......yes
fell away........I was never raised in Catholicism, never received communion or confirmation.

I am trying to 'come back'

[Quietfire]

does this answer your questions, Phatcatholic?

did I win a prize!? (sorry, couldnt resist...a bit of levity)

Edited May 2, 2004 by Quietfire