"worldview Differences"

[Mrs. Bro. Adam]

What does "worldview" mean, and how do you define your own worldview?

[Theoketos]

I would say that it means, how one sees all the issues at once.

And after a while a pattern of thought arises in were one may predict a particular stance on an issue, based on previous stances.

[Katholikos]

My Webster's gives a one-word definition of worldview: "Weltanschauung."

Under that, it says: "a comprehensive conception of the universe and of humanity's relation to it."

What's my worldview? To be continued . . . I'm trying to express it in less than a jillion words.

[Circle_Master]

A worldview is the perspective in which you view life and the world around you. The worldview, since it is what you believe, will affect your actions and thoughts and perceptions.

My worldview? Somewhere between a depraved, sinful one and the biblical one.

[Katholikos]

draft post deleted

Edited May 1, 2004 by Katholikos

[IcePrincessKRS]

Oops... I edited and fixed the bold in your post Likos... I forgot that it would put that line that says I edited, but since its there I thought I should let you know why!

[Katholikos]

This is the worldview that affects my actions, thoughts, and perceptions:

[u]Catholic worldview (in brief):[/u]

God created the universe and everything in it, and it was [b]good.[/b] EVERYTHING that God created was good. Man is good. Adam and Eve, our first parents, were endowed by God with supernatural gifts, over and above the gifts given them because of their human nature, that enabled them to know Him intimately and walk and talk with Him in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve disobeyed a direct order from God. That was the Original Sin, and the consequence was the withdrawal of their supernatural gifts and their expulsion from paradise. They wanted to be like God, but there is only one God. We inherited this original sin.

We retained the gifts God that gave us due to our human nature, but we are deprived of the supernatural gifts that enable friendship and intimacy with God. But Christ redeemed us, took our sins upon Himself, ended our exile, and opened the doors of heaven to us. Christ made it possible for us to again receive the supernatural gifts -- the Sanctifying Grace -- lost to us by our first parents, so that we are once more enabled to walk in His friendship and to know Him intimately. He makes this Sanctifying Grace – His Own Divine Life – available to us through the Church He founded for our salvation – the Sacraments. We don’t have to wait until we get to heaven; we can know Him intimately now; the Eucharist is our food for the journey.

So the Fall, or Original Sin, brought death to us, deprived us of Sanctifying Grace, wounded our nature, exiled us from heaven, and left us inclined toward sin. But still, we are good. God does not make junk. We’re only a little lower than the angels. The Fall did not make our human nature evil, or depraved, but it left us with a predisposition to evil. It weakened our will and left us vulnerable to concupiscence and sin.

But God made us to know Him, to love Him, to serve Him in this life and to be happy with Him forever in the life to come.

[u]The Protestant worldview:[/u]

With thousands of denominations, each with their own belief system, it is impossible to speak of a single Protestant worldview.

Would a Protestant please share the worldview held by their denomination with us?

Catholicism is optimistic - it believes in the goodness of God, the goodness of all His creation, and the basic goodness of man -- notwithstanding the Fall.

Protestantism is pessimistic - it believes that man's nature is basically evil as a result of the Fall, as expresssed in the doctrine of "total depravity."

Two totally different ways of looking at the world. And, as Circle pointed out, our worldview affects the way we act, think, and perceive reality.

Ave Cor Mariae, Likos

[Katholikos]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' date='Apr 30 2004, 06:44 PM']Oops... I edited and fixed the bold in your post Likos... I forgot that it would put that line that says I edited, but since its there I thought I should let you know why![/quote]
Thanks, Katie. I get soooooo confused. A response I was working on got posted, so I deleted it. It was the one you edited. I'll be all right when the swelling goes down.

Edited May 1, 2004 by IcePrincessKRS

[Hananiah]

I think I expressed my worldview about as well as I will be able to do in the near future in my "prayer for a recovering postmodernist."

In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

I firmly believe and profess that reality is objective, that is, it exists independently of any human perception, including my own, and also that truth is a state of correspondence between belief and this reality, and that all beliefs which fail to meet this criterion, no matter how meaningful to the one who holds them, are false. I maintain that my beliefs correspond to objective reality, and since two contradictory beliefs cannot both be true, in so doing I must necessarily also maintain that all beliefs which contradict my own, including those of a deeply held religious nature, do not; that is to say, they are false and the people who hold them are wrong. Moreover, I also believe and profess that truth is desirable and falsity dangerous. Hence it is profitable that those who hold false beliefs be dissuaded from their errors and brought to the knowledge of the truth, which task is best accomplished through deductive reasoning, since true premises and sound logic always yield true conclusions. Finally, I firmly believe and profess that all truth, including and especially moral and religious truth, is by nature immutable and absolute, and that it is, without any taint of error, contained in and expounded upon by the magesterium of the Catholic Church, which was founded by Your Divine Son made Man upon the rock of St. Peter, the Pope. Glory be to You almighty Father, always now and ever and forever.

In the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

[Katholikos]

Hananiah, shout it out! Amen! Hallelujah!

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Katholikos' date='Apr 30 2004, 08:21 PM'] Thanks, Katie. I get soooooo confused. A response I was working on got posted, so I deleted it. It was the one you edited. I'll be all right when the swelling goes down. [/quote]
*beep beep* Bah... silly extra buttons.... I hit "edit" instead of "quote" and posted my reply in your message! lol Thats a first....

hehe Well I guess it was beside the point to edit since it was a draft... but I'm glad it all worked out and didn't end up being a jillion words long.

[Mickey's_Girl]

[quote name='Katholikos' date='Apr 30 2004, 07:11 PM'] This is the worldview that affects my actions, thoughts, and perceptions:

[u]Catholic worldview (in brief):[/u]

God created the universe and everything in it, and it was [b]good.[/b] EVERYTHING that God created was good. Man is good. Adam and Eve, our first parents, were endowed by God with supernatural gifts, over and above the gifts given them because of their human nature, that enabled them to know Him intimately and walk and talk with Him in the Garden of Eden. Adam and Eve disobeyed a direct order from God. That was the Original Sin, and the consequence was the withdrawal of their supernatural gifts and their expulsion from paradise. They wanted to be like God, but there is only one God. We inherited this original sin.

We retained the gifts God that gave us due to our human nature, but we are deprived of the supernatural gifts that enable friendship and intimacy with God. But Christ redeemed us, took our sins upon Himself, ended our exile, and opened the doors of heaven to us. Christ made it possible for us to again receive the supernatural gifts -- the Sanctifying Grace -- lost to us by our first parents, so that we are once more enabled to walk in His friendship and to know Him intimately. He makes this Sanctifying Grace – His Own Divine Life – available to us through the Church He founded for our salvation – the Sacraments. We don’t have to wait until we get to heaven; we can know Him intimately now; the Eucharist is our food for the journey.

So the Fall, or Original Sin, brought death to us, deprived us of Sanctifying Grace, wounded our nature, exiled us from heaven, and left us inclined toward sin. But still, we are good. God does not make junk. We’re only a little lower than the angels. The Fall did not make our human nature evil, or depraved, but it left us with a predisposition to evil. It weakened our will and left us vulnerable to concupiscence and sin.

But God made us to know Him, to love Him, to serve Him in this life and to be happy with Him forever in the life to come.
[/quote]
Actually, Likos, if you take out the words relating to sacraments and the Eucharist (a big omission, I realize ), I'd say the so-called "Catholic worldview" is exactly what I've believed my entire life as a Protestant.

I've pretty much gone to "pentecostal" or "non-denominational" churches, though. Reformed-influenced denominations have a different take on various aspects discussed, I'm sure.

I find it funny, actually, that when Catholics on this site talk about why Protestants are wrong, they almost always mention one of two ideas:

"30,000 different Protestant denominations--who knows what they REALLY believe?"

Also, the points raised for argument are (from where I sit) more often directed at Reformed-type denominational distinctives than any other.

Why do the Reformed people get the brunt of the hostility? (I'm not defending their theology--after all, I disagree with it; I'm just asking--is it because they're the most organized?)

Also, what is the origin of this 30,000 denominations thing? I've never heard of that, and have a hard time believing it.

MG

[amarkich]

The 30,000 denominations of the Protestant heresy refer to the 2000 census of different Protestant religions. There are actually 33,000+ from my source. Also, some people may have heard the talks done by John Martignoni from Alabama called "One Church". These tapes are great, and I would be glad to mail you one if you are interested (just PM me with your mailing address). During the time that Mr. Martignoni was speaking, however, there were fewer denominations of Protestantism. They have increased since then (as is seen in the 2000 census; he has the 1990 census numbers) and currently add 5 denominations per week! God bless.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Mickey's_Girl' date='May 1 2004, 09:25 PM']Actually, Likos, if you take out the words relating to sacraments and the Eucharist (a big omission, I realize  ), I'd say the so-called "Catholic worldview" is exactly what I've believed my entire life as a Protestant.

I've pretty much gone to "pentecostal" or "non-denominational" churches, though.  Reformed-influenced denominations have a different take on various aspects discussed, I'm sure.

I find it funny, actually, that when Catholics on this site talk about why Protestants are wrong, they almost always mention one of two ideas:

"30,000 different Protestant denominations--who knows what they REALLY believe?"

Also, the points raised for argument are (from where I sit) more often directed at Reformed-type denominational distinctives than any other. 

Why do the Reformed people get the brunt of the hostility? (I'm not defending their theology--after all, I disagree with it; I'm just asking--is it because they're the most organized?)

Also, what is the origin of this 30,000 denominations thing?  I've never heard of that, and have a hard time believing it.

MG[/quote]
MG, let's take one issue at a time -- first, the number of Protestant denominations.

I have in my library the last definitive study that was done, the [i]World Christian Encyclopedia[/i], in two volumes, published in 2001. On page 10, Volume 1, it gives the following comparative information:

(1970) 26,350 (2000) 33,820 denominations / paradenominations

However, this is a statistical study, and it can be a little confusing how Barrett and company classifiy religious entities for statistical purposes. Under the subheading, "Denominationalism" it gives the number of 11,830 traditional denominations and under "Postdenominationalism" it shows 21,990 paradenominations/networks. So it depends on how the the entities are classified.
Since seeing this, I have been cautious about using the 30,000 number. But we can say without fear of contradiction that there a sufficient number of Protestant denominations to prove the ludicrousness of "Sola Scriptura," which is the basis upon which Protestantism and every one of its denominations (or "nondenominations" or "paradenominations") is built.

I think that the larger, more inclusive number has been used in many publications, and that's where most who quote it have gotten it. For example, the [i]Newsweek[/i] cover story for April 16, 2001, makes this statement:

"According to David B. Barrett, coauthor of the World Christian Encyclopedia, there are now 33,800 different Christian denominations. 'And the fasting growing are the independents who have no ties whatsoever to historic Christianity,' " he says.

I'll repond to your other points in a separate post.

Ave Cor Mariae, Likos

[Katholikos]

MG wrote:

[quote]I'd say the so-called "Catholic worldview" is exactly what I've believed my entire life as a Protestant.[/quote]

Martin Luther, architect of Protestantism, looked upon a redeemed man as just a "snow-covered dunghill." He taught that when a man "gets saved," his sins are "covered over by a blanket of the righteousness of Christ," which "blinds" God to man's sinful nature and actual sins, and permits man -- depraved creature that he is -- to pass into heaven. But man remains just a pile of dung. This is the basic Protestant worldview, but it varies according to denomination.

That is not at all the Catholic view. "Original Sin" and actual sins (if any) are not "covered over" but are washed away through Baptism. We are restored to friendship with God and our souls are filled once more with Sanctifying Grace. We have God's own Divine Life within us. We are truly born again, restored to same state as our first parents before the Fall. [i]We are full of grace and in intimate friendship with God[/i]. We remain in this state until we lose it again through disobediance (sin). We are prone to sin because of our fallen human nature. But God gives us the means to be restored yet again to his friendship and grace. These are the Sacraments, especially Penance (Confession) and Eucharist.

I invite our phatmass theologians to correct any unintentional misstatements or omissions I may have made. I have no training in theology, but try to explain Catholicism in laymen's terms.

I LOVE THIS CHURCH!

I'll answer the remainder of your points in another post.

Ave Cor Mariae, Likos