Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 [quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1318803911' post='2322271'] KILL THIS THREAD ASAP! sorry, but if you want information about the Charismatic Movement, this really isn't the place, and this debate (and it will become a debate). [/quote] I disagree. It would be a shame to kill this thread. Why can't one discuss personal opinions of a movement and personal experiences of a movement when the original poster wants to know of the personal opinions and experiences? That being said, the Charismatic movement was one of the driving factors in my living my Catholic faith. My high school taught the faith and the catechism well and very rigorously but my local youth group was abysmal. There was a local Catholic Charismatic group that was around (and being a young teenager, knowing girls would be there didn't hurt). It provided an emotional force that helped drive my intellectual formation deeper. The movement, as I experienced it was very orthodox in its theology and was very loyal to the local hierarchy and to the Magisterium in general. I am very grateful to the movement for all of these thigns; however, there were some practices that seemed common that I look back on with a question. There was this thing though called "Baptism in the Spirit." Looking back on this and other things though I wonder about the relationship of the Sacraments and such "spiritual experiences" like "Baptism in the Spirit" that were presented as necessary in one's faith as being open to the Spirit? I am not saying that being open to the will of God is a bad thing but what is it in the Sacraments like Baptism that is lacking and one needs a formal "declaration of inviting the Spirit into one's life." Doesn't one do this every time one goes to Mass and receives the Eucharist or goes to Confession or accepts God into one's life through Baptism and Confirmation? This declaration of "invitation" or being moved into God's life happens in every Sacrament. Yet, these things were often presented to me as necessary, constantly trying to see where the Spirit was leading me. There were many good things like taking a more active role in trying to remain in right relationship with God; however, trying to understand God's will was often accompanied for many by emotional/spiritual experiences and "praying in tongues." I did not have any of these experiences. Occasionally I had some consolations of things that were bothering me but I did not "receive these gifts" that others received that were normally expressed along side of overflowing emotion. Personally, I have always described myself as one who was religious but had trouble being spiritual. As such, the embodiedness of the graces in the Sacraments are tremendously beneficial to me. I need something that witnesses/ministers to my body, mind, and soul. So when I am struggling with doubts, shame, pain, or any number of other things in life I can recall the words of absolution, or the words of institution, or visit Christ in the Eucharist in Adoration and me united to and in God's presence in the Mass, Confessional, or Adoration Chapel (all in different ways of course). This is ultimately the biggest thing in that the Charismatic meetings were beneficial but I was looking for something more than just God's will in my life. I wanted His presence and I needed more than just an emotional experience. I needed something fleshy, something embodied and not simply personal but communal too. If my emotions did arise in prayer, which for me was a rather rare thing and made me feel a little excluded in Charismatic circles, they were always to my presenting my struggles and joys to Christ in the Sacraments, whether that be with the rest of my community at Mass or in the silence of an adoration chapel. I hope I have been clear, some of these things are still being worked through in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 [quote name='i<3franciscans' timestamp='1318868954' post='2322704'] Thank you all for responding!! I was going to put this on the Debate Table, but I didn't want a debate and I didn't want anyone to be offended. I just was curious of your opinions. I am going to read up more on it like some of you suggested. I am quite indebted to the charismatic movement for my vocation really, but that is a really long story for another time. I am trying to get up the courage to tell my parents everything, but like I said they find it really wierd so I was in need of some affirmation that I was not insane for thinking it was alright. Thank you so so much! Please keep me in your prayers!!! Peace, fran [/quote] Prayers!! And a lot of people may find it weird, but it doesn't make it any less valid an experience for you. How God chooses to act in our lives is His decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Adam Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 It is good to remember too that the charismatic renewal is a renewal. It is not a new/novel idea. "They are not drunk in the way you might thing. They are indeed drunk, but with the sober intoxication (nephalios methe) which kills sin and gives life to the heart and which is the opposite of physical drunkenness...They are drunk insofar as they have drunk the wine of that mystical vine which affirms, "I am the vine, you are the branches (John 15:5)"." (Cyril, 348 AD) "Laeti bibamus sobriam profusionem Spiritus" - St. Ambrose as quoted by Pope Paul VI to the World Congress of the CCR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amppax Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 That went much better than expected, sorry, I'm just a little cynical when this topic (and several others) come up around here. It just tends to be a polarizing issue, sorry for my attitude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Ditto on my initial attitude, this is perhaps the only thread on the topic in recent memory that has not devolved into bitterness. It's a refreshing surprise, and hopefully due in part to it being linked to your vocation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i<3franciscans Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 Please don't apologize. I completely understand. It really is a hard topic to talk about because everyone has their own personal opinion. I think that the movement/renewal frightens some people or makes them uncomfortable so rather than trying to understand it they just object to it. I have gained much patience from dealing with such people. Again, thanks for the responses and much needed prayers! ~fran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmaD2006 Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I am soooo proud of the phamily's responses to this thread. I was afraid of it degenerating into a debate table epic fight again (its why I avoid d.t. 99% of the times). I almost didn't read the thread because of it. I am involved with the charismatic renewal, to the point that I was part of the diocesan committee. Having said that -- it is not for everyone. What I mean by that is that if someone doesn't care for it that's ok -- the key is that for some people this may be the way that God uses to lead them to salvation and/or a deeper relationship with God. For others it can be (for example) Cursillo, or ACTS, or CHRP, or Legion of Mary, or being a member of a third order (Franciscan, Dominican, Carmelite, etc), or ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 [quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1319216840' post='2324741'] I am soooo proud of the phamily's responses to this thread. I was afraid of it degenerating into a debate table epic fight again (its why I avoid d.t. 99% of the times). I almost didn't read the thread because of it. I am involved with the charismatic renewal, to the point that I was part of the diocesan committee. Having said that -- it is not for everyone. What I mean by that is that if someone doesn't care for it that's ok -- the key is that for some people this may be the way that God uses to lead them to salvation and/or a deeper relationship with God. For others it can be (for example) Cursillo, or ACTS, or CHRP, or Legion of Mary, or being a member of a third order (Franciscan, Dominican, Carmelite, etc), or ... [/quote] CRHP was the moving point for me this past year. It was the first time I ever attended a weekend and I was so thankful I did. Now, I'm involved in the planning team #1 and I am so happy to be the first team in our parish! The next weekend is March 2012 and I can't wait to share it with the women of our parish!! It's going to be AMAZING! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheresaThoma Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 I have been to a Charismatic prayer meeting at my parish, and though I could appreciate it, overall it wasn't my cup of tea. There is something called Vigil Praise that is held at the seminary once a month and it has a slight bit of the charismatic feel to it but that is balanced out with some of the more "traditional" elements like praying the Office of Readings. I like it because it is a nice middle ground for everyone. This is one thing as a convert I appreciate about the Catholic Church, we can all have our different styles but yet we are still united. One of the RCIA team members described the Catholic Church being like Disneyland there is something for everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 This topic needs to be banned forever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 [quote name='mortify' timestamp='1319254946' post='2324999'] This topic needs to be banned forever... [/quote] Why are some people so dead-set against discussing this? This topic has been civil so far, so it shouldn't be banned unless it devolves into an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 Mater... this topic has been discussed, re-discussed, flipped over, and discussed a couple thousand times... we should just pin a thread to the top of the forum for reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlySunshine Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 [quote name='mortify' timestamp='1319255167' post='2325006'] Mater... this topic has been discussed, re-discussed, flipped over, and discussed a couple thousand times... we should just pin a thread to the top of the forum for reference [/quote] Sorry, I did not know this. In the time I have spent here (over 2 years), this is the only thread like this that I have noticed or paid attention to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 [quote name='TheresaThoma' timestamp='1319224111' post='2324793'] This is one thing as a convert I appreciate about the Catholic Church, we can all have our different styles but yet we are still united. One of the RCIA team members described the Catholic Church being like Disneyland there is something for everyone! [/quote] I never thought about it that way, but it's totally true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noel's angel Posted October 22, 2011 Share Posted October 22, 2011 (edited) I think the problem a lot of people have with the charismatic movement (including myself), is not the movement itself but the attitudes of some of the people linked with it, and also the fact that there are a lot of things that go on that clearly aren't the work of the Holy Spirit. I often get the feeling that some people think that because they 'let go' and get so emotional that they fall down or babble nonsense, that they are somehow more 'in touch' with the Holy Spirit than I am. I don't believe that the Holy Spirit is responsible for people fainting or babbling away - I'm certain it's because of heightened emotions. So, just because I'm more reserved as a person (and in the way I worship) please don't imply I'm not mates with the Holy Spirit. We have a prayer group in our parish that is kinda just allowed to use a room for their meetings - it's not run by a priest or anything. Some of them claim to speak in tongues. I know someone who heard one of them babble on for a good ten minutes and then the woman who 'translated' for her said that all she said was 'Let there be peace!'. sorry, I just don't buy it. At the same time, I'm sure there are plenty of people within the charismatic movement who don't get on like that. I just haven't met them yet. If the movement is okay with the Pope, it's okay with me but I'd say it's more open than most to being used by toots who go for the old emotional high. Edited October 22, 2011 by Noel's angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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