thessalonian Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 The add below was in last weeks bulletin at a local church. I have to say I am disturbed by it. While divorce is a reality these days and there are certain cases where the church tolerates it, I am not at all comfortable with what seems almost to be promoting it or to the point of throwing in the towel. I am embarrassed that this was in a Catholic bulletin. Am I off? Divorce Dos and Don't - Is divorce on the horizon for your or someone you care fore? Learn from a team of divorce professsionals about a) pros and cons of the five models of divorce, b) common mistakes to avoid, c) financial planning strategies available, d) the realities of co-parenting, and e) creating a plan of self care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern california guy Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 It sounds like there is plenty of "support" for Catholics planning a divorce at your church.. It would bother me because it sounds like the opposite of counselling for married couples -- which would be so that they could work out their problems INSTEAD of getting divorced. I guess if that were an option it would harm the arguments in support of marriage "annulments". The arguments that a marriage never really existed -- and you can't "save" something that never existed in the first place. Jesus Christ would be very pleased with the modern Catholic church.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1318702226' post='2321648'] It sounds like there is plenty of "support" for Catholics planning a divorce at your church.. It would bother me because it sounds like the opposite of counselling for married couples -- which would be so that they could work out their problems INSTEAD of getting divorced. I guess if that were an option it would harm the arguments in support of marriage "annulments". The arguments that a marriage never really existed -- and you can't "save" something that never existed in the first place. Jesus Christ would be very pleased with the modern Catholic church.. [/quote] i am so glad you have the 'phishy' tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1318702226' post='2321648'] It sounds like there is plenty of "support" for Catholics planning a divorce at your church.. It would bother me because it sounds like the opposite of counselling for married couples -- which would be so that they could work out their problems INSTEAD of getting divorced. I guess if that were an option it would harm the arguments in support of marriage "annulments". The arguments that a marriage never really existed -- and you can't "save" something that never existed in the first place. Jesus Christ would be very pleased with the modern Catholic church.. [/quote] And you think people [i]don't[/i] try to work out problems before going through the pain and heartache of divorce? I don't know [s]too many[/s] any people who approach the subject like it's a candy machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern california guy Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 (edited) [quote name='IcePrincessKRS' timestamp='1318706281' post='2321673'] And you think people [i]don't[/i] try to work out problems before going through the pain and heartache of divorce? I don't know [s]too many[/s] any people who approach the subject like it's a candy machine. [/quote] No it's not like a candy machine. I don't think that the divorce is much of a treat for anybody. The children of the divorcees also go through the pain and heartache. So maybe the Catholic church should provide counselling for them too? a) There could be counselling where they teach the children that their parents were never really married. b) They could explain why their parents marriage wasn't really valid -- and wouldn't qualify as the type of divorce and remarriage that Jesus Christ preached against in Mark chapter ten. c) And they could counsel the children so that the children could feel better when they saw their father in a sexual relationship with a strange new woman, or their mother in a sexual relationship with a strange new man -- because this time the "marriage" would actually be "valid" and the vows would be real. [i] Or maybe not[/i].. if they were to get divorced again... Edited October 15, 2011 by southern california guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I just don't have the time right now to do this justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='IcePrincessKRS' timestamp='1318706281' post='2321673'] And you think people [i]don't[/i] try to work out problems before going through the pain and heartache of divorce? I don't know [s]too many[/s] any people who approach the subject like it's a candy machine. [/quote] First of all there is no such thing as divorce in the Church. It is a legal matter only. With regard to the sacrament of marriage... Is it till death do us part or "till death do us part unless it gets difficult and we can't work things out". I know someone who has been struggling with depression for years. It affected his marriage and they ended up separating. He was taking medication but it didn't work. Finally he got on a different medication that helped greatly. But his wife now wants a divorce and priests in this parished have counseled her that it would be ok. There is little he can say or do at this point. I believe that the grace of Christ can always overcome the most difficult of marriages and "in sickness and in healt, for richer for poorer,etc. means what it says. To me that add undermines marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1318709681' post='2321697'] I just don't have the time right now to do this justice. [/quote] Catherine, you've done more than your fair share trying to explain to people who won't let your explanations penetrate their brains. not your fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 By the way the counseling is provided by Catholic Charities. I am am debating whether or not CC should provide such counseling or not. I think it should I guess. It just bothers me that this add is in a parish bulletin seeming to "promote" divorce and help it along. I do think that in a pastoral setting that a priest could direct someone to such counseling. I don't think it should be in the bulletin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 to get back on topic, thess, do they have anything there for Retrovaille (sp?) or Marriage Encounter? if not, perhaps you might suggest either of those? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1318709681' post='2321697'] I just don't have the time right now to do this justice. [/quote] Knowing your profession I look forward to your response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1318710050' post='2321705'] I don't think it should be in the bulletin.[/quote] i agree, and definitely suggest you send your priest a link to either of the aforementioned groups. here's Retrouvaille http://www.retrouvaille.org/ Marriage Encounter http://www.wwme.org/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thessalonian Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1318710125' post='2321706'] to get back on topic, thess, do they have anything there for Retrovaille (sp?) or Marriage Encounter? if not, perhaps you might suggest either of those? [/quote] I believe I have seen them in the bulletin before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southern california guy Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='thessalonian' timestamp='1318709824' post='2321702'] First of all there is no such thing as divorce in the Church. It is a legal matter only. With regard to the sacrament of marriage... Is it till death do us part or "till death do us part unless it gets difficult and we can't work things out". I know someone who has been struggling with depression for years. It affected his marriage and they ended up separating. He was taking medication but it didn't work. Finally he got on a different medication that helped greatly. But his wife now wants a divorce and priests in this parished have counseled her that it would be ok. There is little he can say or do at this point. I believe that the grace of Christ can always overcome the most difficult of marriages and "in sickness and in healt, for richer for poorer,etc. means what it says. To me that add undermines marriage. [/quote] Maybe "divorce" is a legal term but the Catholic church used to be opposed to it because of what Jesus taught in Mark chapter ten -- about a Jewish divorce, remarriage, and adultery. "Annulments" have basically become Catholic "divorce" -- it allows them to remarry. Getting married a second time is what divorce is all about. Maybe the Catholic church should change the vows from: "Till death do us part" to "Till divorce do us part". Since in the vows when people say "For better, or for [b]worse..[/b]" -- they don't really honestly mean [b]for worse[/b].. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name='southern california guy' timestamp='1318710358' post='2321711'] Maybe "divorce" is a legal term but the Catholic church used to be opposed to it because of what Jesus taught in Mark chapter ten -- about a Jewish divorce, remarriage, and adultery. "Annulments" have basically become Catholic "divorce" -- it allows them to remarry. Getting married a second time is what divorce is all about. Maybe the Catholic church should change the vows from: "Till death do us part" to "Till divorce do us part". Since in the vows when people say "For better, or for [b]worse..[/b]" -- they don't really honestly mean [b]for worse[/b].. [/quote] Seriously? We get that you disagree. But that isn't what this thread is about. Please try to stay on topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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