A Vocational Snob?

[InPersonaChriste]

You know how many people in the Catholic church have that set opinion of the certain types of mass that are to be said (like the English mass against the Latin mass) or what instruments are to be used?

Well that really bugs me! But then I realized, I have become a vocational snob.

I became caught up in the little details of prefrence that I have developed over a my period of discernment (as in if they use wedding rings or not, or if they have name changes when you take up the habit). Though I am not stipulating that prefrence is bad, I am just simple stating that becoming snobby about it is. And I realized today that I have become a tad indifferent to certain orders that do not suit my fancy.

For those who may be (or maybe just to clarify it to myself) in the same situation; realise that God is present in every order (just as he is present in the mass) and we should not turn our noses up just because it does not suit us. And who knows, you have to be there to recieve God's grace. You might even be called there.

Yes,
That is my little piece of confusing wisdom of the day.

In Christ
IPC

[OnlySunshine]

Hun, don't feel bad. I used to do the same thing. If an order didn't meet MY expectations, they were immediately crossed off my list. I took a very hostile approach to all non-habited orders as well. I thought that they weren't truly being witnesses of God if they weren't wearing the habit. Though the habit is lovely, I now understand that some of the founders desired that their Sisters did not wear a habit, such as the Sisters of Charity. Of course, wearing a habit doesn't mean that the person is the best Sister, either. Some who have disobeyed the Church have been in habited orders. So, my mindset changed. I look at what is underneath and think that is what counts. I still feel called to wear a habit, but I understand that some women do not. They are still Sisters. Just because I don't feel called to do what they do doesn't mean they are any less of a service to the Church.

[BarbTherese]

Well said.

[Aya Sophia]

In discerning God's call, what we are discerning is [u]His will[/u]. (emphasis should perhaps be in "His"!)

A few interior prerequisites for authentic and fruitful discernment: self-knowledge, the ability to "discern spirits" (understanding the source of our impulses) and - perhaps most importantly or most fundamentally - humility.

[cmaD2006]

I've always said, you can have a saint hidden within a community that we could find lots of faults with -- i.e. no habit, controvertial, etc.

And you can find someone who is at risk of not even reaching purgatory in a community that we think is "perfect" -- i.e. traditional full habit, faithful to charism of founder, faithful to the Church, etc.

In the two communities that I am in, I can say that I believe I ran into both. I was in contact with the saint, and with the not-so-saintly.

Yet again even the not-so-saintly still has a chance to reach the goal of being in the Lord's presence forever.

[i<3franciscans]

That is a great insight, but as you have realized God is present in every order, so have I. I have also realized that since all religious sisters are married to Jesus we are all sisters to each other even if we are in different orders. I still go on retreats with orders I know I am not called to every once in a while because I still love them even if I am not called to them. (That is not wrong is it?)

Edited October 14, 2011 by i<3franciscans

[Feankie]

[i]You know how many people in the Catholic church have that set opinion of the certain types of mass that are to be said (like the English mass against the Latin mass) or what instruments are to be used?[/i]

[i]Well that really bugs me! But then I realized, I have become a vocational sno[/i]b.

I just HAD to reply to this one. Although I'm not discerning a religious vocation any more (too old and too married !), I can relate to this topic as well. After I decided to have a family and stop practicing medicine, I went back to school several times for several different theology degrees. My career in professional ministry began in the late 80's and still continues. As I am credentialed to the hilt, I often find myself looking at different liturgies, music, prayer styles, conferences, etc. through a very different lens now that I did before all that. I find myself thinking "Does that meet the standards of the GIRM" or I think I could do it better myself. Snobbish? Yes. I admit it. I'm confessing here (the wrong place, I know!) to the sin of pride. And I am trying to squash it down. Prayers for that, please
And, oh yeah....Go Packers!!!

[Sister Marie]

I think this is a great insight. If I might... I would add the question, to which I'm sure there is no steadfast answer, what do you do when a community doesn't meet your expectations? Say you've been discerning with this particular community and find there is something about them that makes you cringe or doesn't sit right with you... how do you reconcile that with your own spirituality, practices, preferences...? Even further what do you do if... or should I say when... you enter and have been with the community for some time and you start to see their flaws and natural sinfulness from the inside out? How do you decide if you are still willing to put your lot in with theirs? I think for everyone this is substantially different but it is definitely something to reflect on because the reality is even if you enter your "dream community" there will be a day when you see something that you don't like - we are all human after all. I know how I have reconciled things I wish I didn't ever have to deal with (because it is much easier to just agree with myself all the time than to experience the discomfort of being stretched!)... but have you ever thought about how you would handle some of the things that you might not agree with or prefer once you are committed to a community or seriously discerning them? ... by you I mean anyone, haha...

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1318642489' post='2321414']
I think this is a great insight. If I might... I would add the question, to which I'm sure there is no steadfast answer, what do you do when a community doesn't meet your expectations? Say you've been discerning with this particular community and find there is something about them that makes you cringe or doesn't sit right with you... how do you reconcile that with your own spirituality, practices, preferences...? Even further what do you do if... or should I say when... you enter and have been with the community for some time and you start to see their flaws and natural sinfulness from the inside out? How do you decide if you are still willing to put your lot in with theirs? I think for everyone this is substantially different but it is definitely something to reflect on because the reality is even if you enter your "dream community" there will be a day when you see something that you don't like - we are all human after all. I know how I have reconciled things I wish I didn't ever have to deal with (because it is much easier to just agree with myself all the time than to experience the discomfort of being stretched!)... but have you ever thought about how you would handle some of the things that you might not agree with or prefer once you are committed to a community or seriously discerning them? ... by you I mean anyone, haha...
[/quote]


As usual, Sr Marie, great questions. This happened to me and although it wasn't the reason I left, I can see how it does 'stretch' one. The last Carmel I went to was really a sort of 'last resort' for me because basically it was the only one in Australia that would even consider me, and I didn't want to go back to the UK at that time for personal reasons.

When I got to the Aussie Carmel, I found so many things different from the previous Carmels I had been in, and many of them were very disconcerting at first. I spent three months during a live-in to decide if I could handle these little differences, not only from my own expectations, but also from my own previous experiences. When I left the live-in, I spent two months praying about this and came to the conclusion that my reasons for wanting to be in Carmel were deeper than the exterior things that bothered me so I decided to enter. It was actually a lovely experience from that point of view because I think alot of my 'vocational snobbery' was wiped out by being in that Carmel. In fact none of the little things that seemed so important at first ended up bothering me in the end and I knew I could live there quite happily despite them - because they taught me to focus on what was real. So even though I ended up leaving there (for a totally unrelated reason which is too personal to discuss here), I am glad that I was given that opportunity to grow a little in humility. I think it is also what opened me up to the possibility that perhaps Carmel wasn't the only place in the world where I could live as a religious!!

And I don't think that vocation snobbery ends at entrance either because I did think that some of the Carmels had a sort of 'snobbery' (in quotes because that might be too harsh a word) about their own Order, and their own foundress/foundation history, and their own customs, as if these were somehow better than any other community's! I don't mean a simple pride of achievement but a more subtle form of arrogance. I guess it just shows that none of us are immune to pride in any form, and that we can always use more help from God.

[Sister Marie]

Thanks for the response Nunsense... I think for me there are three different scenarios and ways to deal with the disappointment and the difficulty in experiencing something that grinds me up. I think the harder things are the things I see and say, "Well, that's just wrong!" I might be right sometimes BUT I also know that experiencing those things and being subjected to them both opens me to experience oneness with people who live in conditions that are "wrong" but also unites me to Jesus in His messages so often that challenged the popular thinking of his time. They aren't moral issues but things I consider not in right practice I guess. When I'm wrong and I'm humbled it is almost always an experience when I become broader and more able to love a greater spectrum of people because I've learned about the brokenness of others and the brokenness of myself. Then there are some times when I can't stand for something that is wrong and there has to be an appropriate way to express that too.

[brandelynmarie]

Beautiful thread. Y'all have given me much food for thought. Thank you.

[InPersonaChriste]

I love the replies on here! You have all gone really deep into the discussion (especially Sister Marie, and Nunsense) and made me really think about this more.

[Sister Andrew]

[quote name='Sister Marie' timestamp='1318642489' post='2321414']
I think this is a great insight. If I might... I would add the question, to which I'm sure there is no steadfast answer, what do you do when a community doesn't meet your expectations? Say you've been discerning with this particular community and find there is something about them that makes you cringe or doesn't sit right with you... how do you reconcile that with your own spirituality, practices, preferences...? Even further what do you do if... or should I say when... you enter and have been with the community for some time and you start to see their flaws and natural sinfulness from the inside out? How do you decide if you are still willing to put your lot in with theirs? I think for everyone this is substantially different but it is definitely something to reflect on because the reality is even if you enter your "dream community" there will be a day when you see something that you don't like - we are all human after all. I know how I have reconciled things I wish I didn't ever have to deal with (because it is much easier to just agree with myself all the time than to experience the discomfort of being stretched!)... but have you ever thought about how you would handle some of the things that you might not agree with or prefer once you are committed to a community or seriously discerning them? ... by you I mean anyone, haha...
[/quote]

Sr. Marie, This is a completely amesome post!

It is alot about the discomfort of being stretched in so many unexpected ways! I know for myself some things come up in community that don't meet my expectations when I finally bring them to Jesus in prayer (I can be pretty stubborn sometimes!) I realize that it might be a call for me to do something different in my own life or a different way of looking at things.
After I entered I used to think that if something didn't meet my expectations then I some how had to change to whatever everyone else was doing but that's not always necessary this is especially when dealing with certain practices or traditions given to us by our Founder or first Sisters, I thought everyone would do things [i]exactly [/i]like the Founder had told us in the books we read from him! But somethings change a little over time and that doesn't mean we're any less faithful to our Founder's thought! And usualy when I take time to ask questions or just have a nice conversation with some of the Sisters that know the history it helps put everything in a bigger picture that is much easier to make sense of!
Beautiful reflections and thoughts from everyone in this thread!
peace,
Sr. Andrew

Edited October 16, 2011 by Andrew

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='Andrew' timestamp='1318731236' post='2321886']

Sr. Marie, This is a completely amesome post!

It is alot about the discomfort of being stretched in so many unexpected ways! I know for myself some things come up in community that don't meet my expectations when I finally bring them to Jesus in prayer (I can be pretty stubborn sometimes!) I realize that it might be a call for me to do something different in my own life or a different way of looking at things.
After I entered I used to think that if something didn't meet my expectations then I some how had to change to whatever everyone else was doing but that's not always necessary this is especially when dealing with certain practices or traditions given to us by our Founder or first Sisters, I thought everyone would do things [i]exactly [/i]like the Founder had told us in the books we read from him! But somethings change a little over time and that doesn't mean we're any less faithful to our Founder's thought! And usualy when I take time to ask questions or just have a nice conversation with some of the Sisters that know the history it helps put everything in a bigger picture that is much easier to make sense of!
Beautiful reflections and thoughts from everyone in this thread!
peace,
Sr. Andrew
[/quote]


Sr Andrew - another great post! It is always easy to think that we are the ones who see things clearly, the way they 'should' be.


I am trying to correct this in my own life right now and it isn't easy. I work in an elderly hostel and there are little things about different people I work with that drive me nuts. I find myself getting irritated because other nurses or caregivers don't do things the way I think they should be done or they do things that seem to me to interfere with my own work. This makes me impatient and sometimes I get a little cranky in my responses to the 'offender' at the time. I look forward to shifts where I don't have to work with a particular person because I know it is going to be harder than it is with someone who does things the way I like. I also look forward to the end of shift if I am with some people whereas with others, it doesn't bother me even if I have to stay back later than knock-off time because the people I am with please me with their actions.

In the past, I would let these feelings continue, but now I am trying to see things from the point of view of religious life. If I were in a convent and these were my sisters I was working with, how much more would I try to see Christ in them, and to accept their ways of doing things instead of always thinking I know best? With this in mind, I now see that the problem is mine, not theirs and despite not really wanting to make the effort, I am now going to try to find something positive in every situation and look only for the good in the other people I work with. this won't be easy for me, but with God's help, it will certainly improve me!

[Sister Marie]

Sometimes I have felt so dumb for my immediate judgment when I've been told the REAL reason behind a decision - which I don't always have a right to know anyway. It really gives me a good dose of humility, which I pray for but don't really want to experience (who does?... it hurts!). Sometimes there is a reason we do things the way we do that I never think of and its definitely the better way... but I never would have seen it that way had someone not brought my attention to it. I also recognize sometimes that I could be right... not by any merit of my own but because I have a different perspective to share. If my principal doesn't know how to use facebook... I could have some more information on cyberbullying than she does... .

It goes both ways. That's part of the beauty of religious life too that you get so many gifted and talented and diverse people together to try to bring the Kingdom to life in our world now. God works it all out for us... but it is never as clean as most of us would like. We always have to struggle with the fact that we have put our whole life in the hands of our community and they will make mistakes no matter what... it's human nature, and its every community and we are joined together for better or for worse.

It all just makes me glad that God doesn't mind messes!

I used to get upset about how my community has an unstructured day each week - prayers in private and attendance at Mass are assumed but its pretty much free. When I was a novice I didn't like it at all. I thought we should be praying together and keeping up our same practice as before. However, now that I'm on the mission I realize that without that day, I wouldn't make it! In fact, we spend more time together as a community on our free day than on any others. We also need the rest we receive that day to carry on our apostolate which is physically and emotionally taxing - education. Now I understand.

Anyway... I have plenty of other examples but the point is that God gives us one another to make these decisions together to bring about the kingdom and sometimes I have to give up my own ideas for the greater common good of my community... sometimes it ends up being the greater good for me too even when I think it isn't.