Little Flower Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Does this count as advice? I was talking with a sister in an active order (about her order, not just having a random chat lol) and i mentioned that i liked how they werent cloistered, and I had never heard of non cloistered carmelites (she was a Carmelite DCJ) and she asked me if I was scared of the cloister. i dismissed it at the time but i thought about it later, and ive become convinced i have a contemplative vocation. i had never considered the cloister as an option for me. you know, "I could never do that. therefore i am not called to that" but i never actually said that. it was more my subconscious thought i guess if that makes sense. i would say that is the single most influential thing anyone has said to me in my discernment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Don't worry, don't give up hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatitude Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Vocation is not something that happens in the future, it's what you're doing now. Don't waste your time wishing for something that hasn't arrived yet (convent, marriage, whatever). Just get on with what you've been given. Love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 [quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1318524640' post='2320677'] Vocation is not something that happens in the future, it's what you're doing now. Don't waste your time wishing for something that hasn't arrived yet (convent, marriage, whatever). Just get on with what you've been given. Love it. [/quote] This goes with what one of my good friends, my superior, told me after I left the convent twice and was still discerning whether or not to return. She said, "Stop discerning religious life. Get on with your life, hon, God has plans for you and they are wonderful!" Sometimes I get lost in my self... and I stop listening cos I want what i want, and not so much what God wants. This advice came to me and it hit me like a ton of bricks. It made me so unhappy at the time, but now I couldn't be more happier that I took her advice. And God delivers. My life is more peaceful now. He knows what is best for me, I do not know what is best for myself. I rely totally on Him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 [quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1318758865' post='2322007'] And God delivers. My life is more peaceful now. He knows what is best for me, I do not know what is best for myself. I rely totally on Him. [/quote] Amen ds! Amen! (I'm out of props...again ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 The best spouses are those who have discerned the religious life because they haven't just fallen into marriage, they have discerned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovemberFourth Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 The best discernment advice I ever recieved was, interestingly, from a man who had left religious life. He did not know I was discerning but he told me that although he had left he had no regrets. He said that no matter how much you discern you will never reach a moment of absolute, lasting certainty. That at some point you have to make a leap of faith and apply and enter. I had been waivering way too long - I was waiting for that thunderbolt of certainty. What he told me made me realise that it was not going to be like that. I saw that God wanted me to trust him and if I had "certainty" I would not be able to offer God that trust. So, I became glad of my uncertainty because it made it possible for me to offer God my trust and surrender to him a little more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aya Sophia Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 (edited) Seems very important, that bit about, at some point, having to act - having to take a leap of faith and act. Novice mistress once told me a story (from Zen Buddhism? Don't know but I don't think it comes from the desert fathers.) A master was walking one day with his disciple. They were nearing the edge of a cliff. The master asked the disciple to leap off the cliff. The disciple was at first shocked and petrified with fear but as the master spoke to him further, encouraging him to trust and not to allow his fear to prevent him from proceeding or perhaps even, if he could, to proceed without fear, the disciple began to grow calm. At last, quietly, he stepped forward and lept over the edge. He hurtled downward through the air and hit the ground below, breaking into a million pieces. And then he got up, and walked away. Sometimes our [u]only way forward[/u] is in making and acting on a decision that hold risks, that requires a leap over the cliff. Hanging back and not deciding or deciding and not acting on our decision because of a fear we have of the risks involved - if we persist in this way, we will never have a chance of growing into (in St. Ireneus' words) the glory of God, into a person full alive. Edited October 20, 2011 by Aya Sophia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 [quote name='Aya Sophia' timestamp='1319152542' post='2324398'] Seems very important, that bit about, at some point, having to act - having to take a leap of faith and act. Novice mistress once told me a story (from Zen Buddhism? Don't know but I don't think it comes from the desert fathers.) A master was walking one day with his disciple. They were nearing the edge of a cliff. The master asked the disciple to leap off the cliff. The disciple was at first shocked and petrified with fear but as the master spoke to him further, encouraging him to trust and not to allow his fear to prevent him from proceeding or perhaps even, if he could, to proceed without fear, the disciple began to grow calm. At last, quietly, he stepped forward and lept over the edge. He hurtled downward through the air and hit the ground below, breaking into a million pieces. And then he got up, and walked away. Sometimes our [u]only way forward[/u] is in making and acting on a decision that hold risks, that requires a leap over the cliff. Hanging back and not deciding or deciding and not acting on our decision because of a fear we have of the risks involved - if we persist in this way, we will never have a chance of growing into (in St. Ireneus' words) the glory of God, into a person full alive. [/quote] This philosophy may have its uses, but it does concern me... The problem with Zen Buddhism (speaking as an ex one) is that it doesn't allow for things like 'informed conscience'. To simply follow orders without considering the consequences can lead to things like Jonestown.... trusting that the person who is giving the orders is completely in accord with God's will - when they aren't. Leaping off a cliff could be suicide in some cases. I even heard the story of a Carmelite Prioress in the UK who took a group of nuns out of the community to start a new foundation - without the permission and consent of her Bishop. The nuns had to obey her because of obedience, but in the interim all of them were excommunicated. Finally, the Prioress was sent to another monastery, never to be Prioress again, and the nuns were returned to their community and excommunication lifted because they had been under obedience. But the point to me is that not everyone who gives orders is doing the will of God (or even of their own Bishop). Now we have all heard stories of St Mary McKillop who was excommunicated for standing up to her Bishop at the time - but he was the one in the wrong there (as she had the right of her constitutions on her side)... and she was validated in the end. She defied her legimate authority because of a higher authority... The thing for me is that blind obedience needs to be tempered by common sense and an informed conscience. God gave us free will for that very purpose. Having been involved with a cult in the past, I am very hesitant about 'jumping off a cliff' just because a person who is considered holy has told me to do so - to 'trust'! I know this is an example only but I just thought I would point this out to those who take things very literally. In all things, common sense as well as faith and trust and obedience apply...... we are not sheep for this world, but for God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aya Sophia Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Well, this story was told me for its message about trusting, taking risks, acting instead of languishing in inaction because of a fear of risk, etc. As the story was told to me, the "master" is the Master, the Lord. Does the Lord ask us to jump off a cliff? In a manner of speaking, He often does. But He also assures us our leap in faith is not ultimately unto death. This is how the story was told . . . whether it was intended originally to have these meanings, I don't know but that is the meaning it was given in being told me and it's the meaning it's always had for me. Sorry I didn't make that clear . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 [quote name='Aya Sophia' timestamp='1319162080' post='2324473'] Well, this story was told me for its message about trusting, taking risks, acting instead of languishing in inaction because of a fear of risk, etc. As the story was told to me, the "master" is the Master, the Lord. Does the Lord ask us to jump off a cliff? In a manner of speaking, He often does. But He also assures us our leap in faith is not ultimately unto death. This is how the story was told . . . whether it was intended originally to have these meanings, I don't know but that is the meaning it was given in being told me and it's the meaning it's always had for me. Sorry I didn't make that clear . . . [/quote] Oh yes, I completely agree. We often are controlled by our fears and doubts, so from that point of view, the story makes perfect sense. I guess my concern is for those who take things more literally - that we can never question authority. As Catholics, we often have the story of Abraham put before us to remind us that Abraham obeyed God, but I think Jesus made it clearer for me when He asked God to take the cup from Him if He would, but then added that 'Thy will be done, not mine." What I am trying to say is that we can question what we are told, and even ask for release from it, but of course, if God's will is clear (which it was to Jesus), then we are best served by obeying it. Discernment is the key here - what is God's will for our life? And that is why it isn't always as easy as it probably should be. We try to discern God's will, but in addition to our natural and very reasonable concerns, there are also fears and doubts that are unreasonable because they don't take into account God's love for us. If it were easy to discern spirits, then St Ignatius wouldn't have made his retreats 30 days and lots of intense prayer and support!! He would have just said - jump off the cliff! So I am not arguing that this was good discernment advice for you - just that interpretation also plays a role. Perhaps I am more wary of this kind of advice, having been involved with a cult before. Now I am very careful to use a great deal of discernment in all that I do. And God has led me to Him through it all - agnostic/atheistic upbringing, Buddhism, cult, etc... to His Church and to a personal relationship with Him, so yes, trust is a very important thing... I don't think we are disagreeing about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovemberFourth Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 (edited) I think it might be useful to put the advice I was offered in the context of my own discernment. At the time it was said I had been actively and continually discerning for about a year and a half. I had, for the early stage of my discernment, moved to another county to get away from many the distractions and "noise" in my own life so that I could focus more closely on God. The man who offered this advice to me was not trying to move me towards one order or another. I was 98 per cent sure I had a vocation to the religious life. But occasionally I struggled with the "he can't want me, I am not good enough" and the "I do not deserve a religious vocation I must be wrong" issue. I also worried about being "wrong". How I would feel and what would happen if i tried religious life and "failed". What this man told me made me realise I was being unrealistic to wait for a state of being 100 per cent certain 100 per cent of the time - and for me that was gold. He also told me that even though he had left religious life he would recommend it to anyone. Additionally, that anyone who after fully discerning felt they had a vocation to try it. This was important, for me at least, because it directly addressed my fear of "failure". I would be doing him a disservice if I left anyone thinking he was suggesting making "that leap of faith" without fully - to the best of one's ability - discerning. His advice may not be suitable to everyone, but it spoke to my heart as well as my mind and was absolutely, for me, the best advice I ever received. Edited October 21, 2011 by NovemberFourth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i<3franciscans Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Okay, so I have been watching this thread for a while and trying to decide what was the BEST advice I had every received regarding discernment and I think I found it. You see last September Jesus asked me to be a CFR; I was thrilled, but I was also a little nervous... just considering how little I knew about them. But within a month, it was all I could think about and I just kept telling myself "As soon as I am 21 I am gone!" Then this past July I was at the Little Sisters of the Poor profession. I met up with a sister I had not seen in a few years and she told me she had "heard" from a friend that I was thinking about religious life so of course the next question was where was I thinking about... When I told her she looked surprised, but she smiled and said. "You have to get to know [i]them[/i] and they have to get to know[i] you[/i]." That one sentence made me s-l-o-w down and realize; i have YEARS ahead of myself. I have so much life to live between now and then I shouldn't just wish it all away. I have really got to appreciate life more since then and I took she advice; I spent a week with two of the sisters this summer and I am trying to get up the courage to write to Sr. Frances [i]just[/i] for information. SO glad this thread was started!! ~fran (Please excuse any grammar mistakes but I didn't have the time to read it over) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marigold Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 "Expectation is the antithesis to discernment." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie de Sales Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 ,,Do not guide yourself by your preferences"- a cloistered nun told me that because it was like this for her. When she visited a community of her congregation, she said she didn't liked the monastery, she didn't liked the sisters, but on the way back, on the train, she had the conviction that there was the place she will bury herself in (metaphorically speaking). Now I try to follow that advice by asking God where he wants me and by not refusing to take into consideration some communities because they don't match my preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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