Lil Red Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 i try to pray every day. that's my rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides quarens intellectum Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 maybe talk to the priest, tell him how you're feeling and why you're struggling, and see if he recommends a new prayer rule or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmaD2006 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 [quote name='fides quarens intellectum' timestamp='1318263449' post='2319116'] maybe talk to the priest, tell him how you're feeling and why you're struggling, and see if he recommends a new prayer rule or not? [/quote] Agreed ... none of us here know you well enough to be able to give a good response, especially having to do with a prayer rule. These things are of sensitive nature too ... I mean I have a "rule of life" that I have attempted to follow and it is something that was developed in prayer and with the guidance of a spiritual director. Your priest will know whether or not the prayer rule needs to be switched up. It could simply be (as it was stated) a dry spell where you just need to persevere through it. It can also be something that has popped up in your prayer that needs to be addressed, and a slight modification/addition/etc to the prayer rule is needed. But again we (or at least I) can't really judge that. But I'm sure that your priest could. Hang in there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmaD2006 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 *** BTW I just read about orthodox prayer rules ... and I think you should talk to the priest. Maybe a slight modification is in order. For example -- St. Ignatius (in his Spiritual Exercises) suggests the use of postures in prayer, and that if there is "fruit" in a particular posture to keep using it until there is no "fruit". So yeah -- talk with your priest and he should be able to help you discern whether a mod to the rule is needed or if it is a question of the will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byzantine Posted October 11, 2011 Author Share Posted October 11, 2011 [quote name='sammich maker' timestamp='1318260094' post='2319108'] what a pity [/quote] Some would definitely disagree with you, myself among them. It's not like we're restricted from praying at any other time, but it's like the bare minimum we have to/are supposed to do. We very much emphasize obedience in our spirituality, so by submitting ourselves to a spiritual director in this matter, we obtain a habit that will help us develop as well as the virtue of obedience. [quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1318275543' post='2319230'] *** BTW I just read about orthodox prayer rules ... and I think you should talk to the priest. Maybe a slight modification is in order. For example -- St. Ignatius (in his Spiritual Exercises) suggests the use of postures in prayer, and that if there is "fruit" in a particular posture to keep using it until there is no "fruit". So yeah -- talk with your priest and he should be able to help you discern whether a mod to the rule is needed or if it is a question of the will. [/quote] Yes... I've read about these. However, the one source from my tradition that I've read that treats of them advises something like "the Desert Fathers were strong and we're weak so these are dangerous for us except under the guidance of an expert spiritual father" or something like that. The prayer involved for us can produce an enormous amount of spiritual fruit, but it can also lead to delusion, pride, arrogance, etc. And yes, the priest's verdict was that I need to persevere Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmaD2006 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 [quote name='Byzantine' timestamp='1318291936' post='2319398'] We very much emphasize obedience in our spirituality, so by submitting ourselves to a spiritual director in this matter, we obtain a habit that will help us develop as well as the virtue of obedience. Yes... I've read about these. However, the one source from my tradition that I've read that treats of them advises something like "the Desert Fathers were strong and we're weak so these are dangerous for us except under the guidance of an expert spiritual father" or something like that. The prayer involved for us can produce an enormous amount of spiritual fruit, but it can also lead to delusion, pride, arrogance, etc. And yes, the priest's verdict was that I need to persevere [/quote] awe-some!!! This is good news ... as I said your priest/spiritual director knows best. And as I've been told "He who obeys does not make a mistake" (El que obedece no se equivoca). Praying for perseverence through this trial/test that the Lord is allowing, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hope&memory Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 [quote name='Byzantine' timestamp='1318183996' post='2318574'] It seems to me that this mindset is not present in Byzantine spirituality. [/quote] Except this that St. Teresa speaks of is known in the East as the "Prayer of the Heart." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 (edited) [quote name='hope&memory' timestamp='1318335423' post='2319588'] Except this that St. Teresa speaks of is known in the East as the "Prayer of the Heart." [/quote] I was thinking about that. What about the type of prayer called hesychasm? [quote] [b]Hesychasm[/b] ([url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language"][color=#0645ad]Greek[/color][/url]: ἡσυχασμός, [i]hesychasmos[/i], from ἡσυχία, [i]hesychia[/i], "stillness, rest, quiet, silence")[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm#cite_note-0"][color=#0645ad][1][/color][/url][/sup] is an [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eremitic"][color=#0645ad]eremitic[/color][/url] tradition of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer"][color=#0645ad]prayer[/color][/url] in the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Orthodox_Church"][color=#0645ad]Eastern Orthodox Church[/color][/url], and some of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Catholic_Churches"][color=#0645ad]Eastern Catholic Churches[/color][/url], such as the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_Rite"][color=#0645ad]Byzantine Rite[/color][/url], practised (Gk: ἡσυχάζω, [i]hesychazo[/i]: "to keep stillness") by the [b]Hesychast[/b] (Gr. Ἡσυχαστής, [i]hesychastes[/i]). Based on Christ's injunction in the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Matthew"][color=#0645ad]Gospel of Matthew[/color][/url] to "go into your closet to pray",[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm#cite_note-1"][color=#0645ad][2][/color][/url][/sup] hesychasm in tradition has been the process of retiring inward by ceasing to register the senses, in order to achieve an experiential knowledge of God (see [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theoria"][color=#0645ad]theoria[/color][/url]). [/quote] Edited October 11, 2011 by nunsense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hope&memory Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Contemplation, mental prayer, Prayer of the Heart, unitive prayer, hesychasm (though this might have some negative connotations because of the 14th C controversy and also refers to a way of life as much so as a type of prayer): imo all have the same purpose -- purify the heart of the passions and unite the soul to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 [quote name='hope&memory' timestamp='1318336955' post='2319592'] Contemplation, mental prayer, Prayer of the Heart, unitive prayer, hesychasm (though this might have some negative connotations because of the 14th C controversy and also refers to a way of life as much so as a type of prayer): imo all have the same purpose -- purify the heart of the passions and unite the soul to God. [/quote] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II"]Pope John Paul II[/url] repeatedly emphasized his respect for Eastern theology as an enrichment for the whole Church, declaring that, even after the painful division between the Christian East and the See of Rome, that theology has opened up profound thought-provoking prospectives of interest to the entire Church. He spoke in particular of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychast_controversy"]hesychast controversy[/url]. The term "hesychasm", he said, refers to a practice of prayer marked by deep tranquillity of the spirit intent on contemplating God unceasingly by invoking the name of Jesus. While from a Catholic viewpoint there have been tensions concerning some developments of the practice, the Pope said, there is no denying the goodness of the intention that inspired its defence, which was to stress that man is offered the concrete possibility of uniting himself in his inner heart with God in that profound union of grace known as [i]theosis[/i], divinization.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm#cite_note-21"][22][/url][/sup][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm#cite_note-22"][23][/url][/sup] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byzantine Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 [quote name='hope&memory' timestamp='1318335423' post='2319588'] Except this that St. Teresa speaks of is known in the East as the "Prayer of the Heart." [/quote] Which is to be practiced in submission to a spiritual father, who will assign a prayer rule, even if it is just requiring so many Jesus prayers a day. [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1318336408' post='2319591'] I was thinking about that. What about the type of prayer called hesychasm? [/quote] [quote name='hope&memory' timestamp='1318336955' post='2319592'] Contemplation, mental prayer, Prayer of the Heart, unitive prayer, hesychasm (though this might have some negative connotations because of the 14th C controversy and also refers to a way of life as much so as a type of prayer): imo all have the same purpose -- purify the heart of the passions and unite the soul to God. [/quote] [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1318337315' post='2319594'] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II"]Pope John Paul II[/url] repeatedly emphasized his respect for Eastern theology as an enrichment for the whole Church, declaring that, even after the painful division between the Christian East and the See of Rome, that theology has opened up profound thought-provoking prospectives of interest to the entire Church. He spoke in particular of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychast_controversy"]hesychast controversy[/url]. The term "hesychasm", he said, refers to a practice of prayer marked by deep tranquillity of the spirit intent on contemplating God unceasingly by invoking the name of Jesus. While from a Catholic viewpoint there have been tensions concerning some developments of the practice, the Pope said, there is no denying the goodness of the intention that inspired its defence, which was to stress that man is offered the concrete possibility of uniting himself in his inner heart with God in that profound union of grace known as [i]theosis[/i], divinization.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm#cite_note-21"][22][/url][/sup][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesychasm#cite_note-22"][23][/url][/sup] [/quote] Not sure what any of this has to do with the prayer rule thread. I move to split the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 [quote name='Byzantine' timestamp='1318123736' post='2318196'] I need advice. I've been feeling pretty... blah lately regarding my prayer rule. Is it time to ask my priest about a new one or should I try to fight through this or should I ask him what would be best or what? Thanks! [/quote] [quote name='Byzantine' timestamp='1318465255' post='2320369'] Not sure what any of this has to do with the prayer rule thread. I move to split the thread. [/quote] The original post said that you were feeling blah regarding your prayer rule. Another poster suggested prayer of the heart to alleviate this blah feeling. I equated this to the Byzantium hesychasy prayer (of the heart) and when it was suggested that this was controversial, I posted JPII's opinion of it to show that it is not forbidden in either rite. If you do not see any relevance, by all means split the thread, but at least acknowledge that you asked for advice and some of us have been trying to offer suggestions. You probably didn't want any suggestions, just wanted to vent, as you have responded negatively to almost every suggestion, and ended up seeing your SD anyway, which is what you probably needed to do in the first place. So, you have solved your problem which is the main thing. No more advice needed it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byzantine Posted October 13, 2011 Author Share Posted October 13, 2011 [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1318465676' post='2320372'] The original post said that you were feeling blah regarding your prayer rule. Another poster suggested prayer of the heart to alleviate this blah feeling. I equated this to the Byzantium hesychasy prayer (of the heart) and when it was suggested that this was controversial, I posted JPII's opinion of it to show that it is not forbidden in either rite. If you do not see any relevance, by all means split the thread, but at least acknowledge that you asked for advice and some of us have been trying to offer suggestions. You probably didn't want any suggestions, just wanted to vent, as you have responded negatively to almost every suggestion, and ended up seeing your SD anyway, which is what you probably needed to do in the first place. So, you have solved your problem which is the main thing. No more advice needed it seems. [/quote] Ah okay! Sorry... Kinda lost the original train of thought. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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