Socrates Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 [quote name='arfink' timestamp='1317924263' post='2316379'] Personally, I like the looks of the protests there. That people were willing to stand up to the corporations that way is impressive. What ticks me off is that both the GOP and DFL don't seem to understand what's going on. [/quote] Not impressed. They really didn't stand up to anyone - just made a lot of noise and made themselves a public nuisance urinating in the streets and whatnot. "Wall Street" was not affected by the silliness, much less did the protesters gain anything for their benefit. If they had an iota of sense, they'd be protesting Obama and the Federal Reserve (which was at the root of the economic collapse), rather than looking to the same corrupt and clueless politicians and bureaucrats to save them with more regulation and general government busibodiness. At this point, punishing "Wall Street" won't do a thing to improve anybody's lot. To be effective, a purpose and plan of action is needed; otherwise, it's nothing more than a tantrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 [quote name='Basilisa Marie' timestamp='1317907672' post='2316057'] Eh, nothing wrong with a little class warfare. That's how we got the French Revolution, after all. [/quote] Yeah, one of the bloodiest events in Western history (as well as viciously anti-Catholic). It also gave us the Soviet Revolution and the years of tyranny and oppression that followed. But, yeah class warfare. yeah socialism . . . (Btw. both were explicitly condemned by multiple Popes.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 [quote name='BG45' timestamp='1317958651' post='2317210'] I don't think so, seems to be about right to me. [/quote] Except that's not what Mr. Cain actually said, but oh well . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 [media='']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYX-121A7Zc[/media] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 [quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1317997553' post='2317419'] Socialism is only okay for businesses that give lots of contributions to political campaigns. They don't call it socialism, they call it stimulus or bail out. [/quote] I'd say it's fascism.[quote name='arfink' timestamp='1317999918' post='2317434'] No, that's what they want you to think. Demand power be stripped from both, lest there be much fire-n-pitchforking. [/quote] I think my snark implies this solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus_lol Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1318008326' post='2317484'] That doesn't contradict what I wrote. The Sons of Liberty were protesting taxation without representation, not the free market, and they weren't crying for more government regulation of the market (which the British had done with their restrictions and taxes). That's actually a big difference. [/quote] It is a similar situation, Government propping up giant companies, passing laws that serve corporate interests over that of the people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 [quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1318009294' post='2317488'] Except that's not what Mr. Cain actually said, but oh well . . . . [/quote] http://online.wsj.com/video/herman-cain-explains-his-999-plan/C0F27595-4101-4E21-83A0-A65A8C53D4F0.html My bad. He said, "Don't blame Wall Street. Don't blame the big banks. If you don't have a job and you're not rich, blame yourself." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1318011086' post='2317499'] [quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1317997553' post='2317419'] Socialism is only okay for businesses that give lots of contributions to political campaigns. They don't call it socialism, they call it stimulus or bail out. [/quote] I'd say it's fascism. [/quote] "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." [url="http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html"]Benito Mussolini[/url] F4L also has an interesting take on the terms: "http://fathersforlife.org/rights/fascism_vs_socialism.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 Adrestia and Nick already covered my points that I could've rebutted to lol. So props to them; Adrestia with the Herman Cain quote where he said "Don't blame Wall Street. Don't blame the big banks. If you don't have a job and you're not rich, blame yourself." And Nick by pointing out that it was a similar situation in so far as the government was propping up a failing corporation. I find it fascinating that the media and people in this thread are ascribing goals to this movement that has not yet decided on set goals for itself. As was stated earlier, people seem confused in interviews as to what they actually want. Some are for regulation, some are for a wider free market (or so I would assume given the backing of libertarian Republicans like Rep. Ron Paul), etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 It's funny that advocating free market is in itself a rejection of Cain's statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted October 7, 2011 Share Posted October 7, 2011 http://reason.com/archives/2011/10/07/occupy-wall-street-beyond-the Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1318011246' post='2317501'] It is a similar situation, Government propping up giant companies, passing laws that serve corporate interests over that of the people. [/quote] Except that the solutions are radically different. The American patriots fought for limited government and against taxation without representation. They didn't demand that King George expand the power of the British government to further "regulate" the tea shipping industry, or preach class warfare. Today's leftist protesters, on the other hand, demand increased federal government power to regulate private industry. That's a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 [quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1318012814' post='2317519'] "Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power." [url="http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/b/benito_mussolini.html"]Benito Mussolini[/url] F4L also has an interesting take on the terms: "http://fathersforlife.org/rights/fascism_vs_socialism.htm [/quote] In fascism and National Socialism (Nazism), all corporations were placed under control of the state. Industry was completely controlled by the state under Communism. All those tyrannical statist regimes came to power by preaching class warfare, and promising to "the masses" deliverance from evil corporations and bankers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 [media='']http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CjrZNi49bE&NR=1[/media] Seems today, however, "Johnny Q. Public" is swallowing the "Ism" snake oil quite eagerly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted October 8, 2011 Share Posted October 8, 2011 See, you people make big walls of text n stuff. The answer is very simple. [img]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-idF2Rue8jE0/TpCB2jjrWUI/AAAAAAAAA-I/wRr18LtqKpw/s800/burnbaby.png[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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