Pagan Influences....

[AlphonsusMary]

My friend was confirmed Catholic this past Easter, after she converted from fundamentalist Christianity. She is in the process of doing the 33 days preparation for the consecration to Jesus through Mary. Well, her parents found out about it and did some reading on it and they have become convinced she is worshiping Mary. So they put a whole presentation together for her about how the early Church (the Catholic Church) adopted many beliefs of paganism, including the "worship of Mary". I know there are many articles online that refute those claims, however, I was wondering if there are any websites or books that deal with this issue in more depth. I'm trying to find a single book or resource that would refute all the claims about paganism in the Church in detail. Does anyone know of any such resources?

[Selah]

1. Catholicism and Fundamentalism by Karl Keating is an excellent place to start

2. Pick up some books with quotes and essays by the early church fathers. Catholic Answers also has essays on the Theotokos galore, along with other quotes from the fathers.

3. Tell them that the reformers loved Mary and even hung on to other beliefs...quotes abound by John Calvin, Martin Luther, etc that claim the Theotokos was the Mother of God and a Perpetual Virgin...if they question the Mother of God, ask them if they are Nestorians (believing that Christ had two "parts" and that the Theotokos only gave birth to his human part). Again, Catholic Answers (catholic.com) has plenty of resources on this.

4. Phatmass also has links upon links for apologetics that include information on the Theotokos.

Seriously, though; I would direct her to Catholic Answers, especially the forums. It's a treasure trove of information.

[url="http://www.catholic.com"]http://www.catholic.com[/url]

I will pray for your friend! Peace in Christ


Selah

[Ed Normile]

You know one of the definition of Worship, is Ardent devotion; Adoration. People say they worship their spouse, their job even their favorite musician. This stuff is hard to defend against as if ones says they are devoting thesmelves to the Virgin Mary it can be attributed to Worship as in, The reverent love and devotion accorded to a deity, an idol, or a sacred object. Which is usually the first definition of the word Worship. The deceiver revels in the use of human language. Take Pro-Choice for example....

Lets all pray for your friend, thats the most powerful defense we have against stuff like this.

ed

Edited October 5, 2011 by Ed Normile

[Basilisa Marie]

I can't think of a single book that would refute all pagan claims against the Church...the best thing I can think of is to read up on what the Early Fathers actually said. And honestly...these people lived in the first few hundred years after Christ, many used to be Jews, and many were martyred by the polytheistic empire. Why would they just randomly allow what would be such a "major" pagan influence into the canon of Christianity? And those who converted from Judaism were used to living as a pocket of monotheism in a society of polytheism. Is the book or website for her or her parents?

Maybe start with these: [url="http://video.catholic.com/tracts/browse/Mary"]http://video.catholic.com/tracts/browse/Mary[/url]
And this one on Paganism: [url="http://video.catholic.com/tracts/is-catholicism-pagan"]http://video.catholic.com/tracts/is-catholicism-pagan[/url]

[mortify]

[quote name='AlphonsusMary' timestamp='1317782357' post='2315512']
My friend was confirmed Catholic this past Easter, after she converted from fundamentalist Christianity. She is in the process of doing the 33 days preparation for the consecration to Jesus through Mary. Well, her parents found out about it and did some reading on it and they have become convinced she is worshiping Mary. So they put a whole presentation together for her about how the early Church (the Catholic Church) adopted many beliefs of paganism, including the "worship of Mary". I know there are many articles online that refute those claims, however, I was wondering if there are any websites or books that deal with this issue in more depth. I'm trying to find a single book or resource that would refute all the claims about paganism in the Church in detail. Does anyone know of any such resources?
[/quote]

What you're asking about is a very broad topic. With regards to Mary, yes, we venerate her, but that is because she is the Theotokos (Mother of God.) It is this reality that establishes her dignity at the very top of the spiritual hierarchy, even though she says very little in Scripture. Can you provide more detail on how this is a pagan idea though?

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1318129523' post='2318249']

What you're asking about is a very broad topic. With regards to Mary, yes, we venerate her, but that is because she is the Theotokos (Mother of God.) It is this reality that establishes her dignity at the very top of the spiritual hierarchy, even though she says very little in Scripture. Can you provide more detail on how this is a pagan idea though?
[/quote]
I'm assuming it's the classic misunderstanding of calling her "Queen of Heaven" and saying that that equates her with Isis/Ishtar/Astarte/insert goddess here and that therefore means we worship Mary and are pagan.

[mortify]

[quote name='Archaeology cat' timestamp='1318185245' post='2318587']
I'm assuming it's the classic misunderstanding of calling her "Queen of Heaven" and saying that that equates her with Isis/Ishtar/Astarte/insert goddess here and that therefore means we worship Mary and are pagan.
[/quote]

Christians believe Mary is Queen because her Son is King. If anyone believes this is of pagan origin, let them bring their proof.

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='mortify' timestamp='1318225978' post='2318979']

Christians believe Mary is Queen because her Son is King. If anyone believes this is of pagan origin, let them bring their proof.
[/quote]
I agree, but doesn't stop people from believing otherwise, especially if they've read Hislop's work or other works that used Hislop as the main source. He makes alot of historical/archaeological claims to "prove" that Catholicism is pagan, but his info isn't credible. Still, I've run into quite a few who were unaware of that and thought he was a reliable source and therefore believed his claims.